Question on "speech" as a tradition.

[aussiekelly1 (deleted)]

I am hoping some of you might be able to help me on this. Because of a conversation I had with a Native American, I am curious as to whether saying something "out loud" has any traditional/cultural significance to any Native tribes? This person seemed to place a lot of emphasis on the fact that they had "said it out loud", and that there was more "meaning" and significance to this than I would understand. Could any of you enlighten me on this? Is this something to do with Native culture, or possibly just a personal eccentricity?

Thanks a million. Kindest regards Kelly

[marlon6 (deleted)]

`I think this needs more elaboration. Like saying something out loud in what way, where, and when.

What I'm understanding is that this person says that anytime someone says something out loud it has more meaning and significance?

Maybe define what they meant by out loud? Like speaking loudly when addressing a group? or just generally speaking loudly? maybe speaking up about something?

It's sort of vague.

[aussiekelly1 (deleted)]

`Hey Marlon, it is vague cause it was quite personal...but the context I was referring to was actually verbalizing somethigng, rather than it being just written. it was not about loudness, but about spoken word itself.

thanks kelly

[marlon6 (deleted)]

`Culturally significant...as in spoken word over written...hmm. I would think most cultures would show that spoken word has more meaning because your putting it face to face. Unless you were to write it in front of them and hand it over...that has a similar personal touch as speaking face to face.

Perhaps this person was getting at the fact that traditionally tribal people haven't communicated on a personal relational level when it comes to writing letters? This is 2010 though, and many natives can read and write so I'd say written does show significance if they can read it. I think it all depends on the individual, and it's unfair to throw in the concept of it being untraditional.

If a Person can say something like "I love you" or explain their feelings in written word first, that's fine, it's just another avenue to release, especially if they're shy or it's new to them. I do think any peoples of any cultural traditions would agree that speaking has a more personal touch, though, that doesn't mean that the meaning in written is somehow less, it's just not as personal. There can be more or less meaning, depending on how well written or understood it is to both parties.

[aussiekelly1 (deleted)]

`Maybe, either written or "thought", verses speech. You argument is philosophical and have been through all that myself. Was more interested to know if there was an actual tradition in some native tribes about speaking something rather than just thinking it. (but I was referring to actual tradition, lore or ritual). xx Kel

[marlon6 (deleted)]

`Still sounds vague for me to understand. The first thought was prayer. In the way I understand, my being can speak in both worlds with voice, and my thoughts can only have sound in one of those worlds (though my thoughts alone can affect both). In my opinion.

I couldn't tell you, it's too vague like I said. I can't speak for every nation, nor my own, especially because of my lack of knowledge in tradition myself. I can only speak from my understanding from my experience in regards to tradition. The significance in speaking in tradition is for others to listen and learn. Respect is placed among those who don't speak because their time to speak will come when they are ready.

One listens to a speaker who teaches tradition, and thus this speakers sound has significance and importance to those listeners. S/he is not above them or better, nor does a speaker hold more power over one than one allows.

I'm just rambling on. I think you need to elaborate more if anyone is to answer this with their knowledge of what you seek.

[summerstorm78 (deleted)]

`I know in many Native cultures it is not permitted to speak of those who have passed on, as it is believed it keeps their spirit here and prohibits it from making it to the spirit world. Is this more related to what you speak of? Well, hope it helps anyways Good luck.

[starwoman1 (deleted)]

`I know in my culture it is not that we believe that naming a deceased person will keep them here it is out respect to that individual who has passed on

[starwoman1 (deleted)]

`Yeah Kelli It would be very helpful if you were more specific on what the emphasis was about. It isnt very helpful to know that they placed emphasis on saying it versus writing it. Its very confusing.

[starwoman1 (deleted)]

`Then if they said anything out loud in front of an elder is considered disrespectful without excusing oneself before hand. Usually when an elder is speaking younger ppl listen, however on occasion like in ceremonies young ppl are called upon to say a prayer so they ask them to over look them at that time IDK its difficult to try and help you kell ur 2 vague

[zzephyr (deleted)]

[rain2wolves]

`Well, I'm Seneca Iroqua, and I can only speak for myself and the traditions I have been taught, for us spoken language is very sacred as that words can have a powerful effect on people. For example for everyone reading my post I'm going to tell you not to think of a link elephant .... what's the first thing you think of? It's a pink elephant, same things, just as the sister said some words attract spirits, some words can also attract different medicines and often it is able to effect everyone around you in good or bad ways. That is one reason we keep our language only amongst our people. Our stories, our history, our culture ... when was the last time anyone heard a "seneca legend" or a "tale of the Seneca tribe/people" not very often and that's cuz those things are sacred to us. In order for them to still be powerfully they need to remain among the people. Same thing for alot of native tribes, our culture is sacred and not often spoken with outsiders even other natives from other tribes. It takes away from who we are and gives it away and there are so few natives in the world we need all we can get! That's why you will see those of us who were raised in our traditions be open as much as we can because a lot of us are taught to show love to those around you and teach them the best you can in a good way but we are also very cautious not to just give away special knowledge or sacred knowledge to anyone and everyone. These things are passed through generations and earned over many many years. That is why many of our people will say this or that cannot be said or said outloud, it is out of respect for our traditions to honor the sacredness of that knowledge or being.

[greatenchantres]

`I realize that this is a 4year old post. Nevertheless I feel like writting about it.

Just like Rain2Wolves states above, LANGUAGE IS VERY SACRED.

I am not Indian, and have little knowledge of the Indian culture. But I will tell you this. As he states rituals and special knowledge is to be kept, so it is to be kept QUIET.

ANother person above stated that "special words attract special spirits"

I saw a documentary on the Lakota Sioux reservation once. There was a Lakota man speaking about how despleased he was by the language young kids use. He said "Language is powerful. Language has the power of life and death. Any languge on this world has the power of life and death".

Of course native cultures, are often magical cultures. They believe in magic. And native religions are highly based on initiation as well.

I will go west now. In western mysticism, esoterism, initiatory tradition and magic, LANGUAGE and SOUND are sacred, and we are to be careful what we speak of.

This goes back all the way to Pythagoras, one of the first schools based on initiation. 600 B.C. Athens Greece.

The first degree of initiation in his shcool called "homakoeion" was called "the acousmatics". (the ones who listened in Greek).

The Acousmatics, would spend up to 7 years silent, simply listening to the teachings of Pythagoras, before they were fully accepted as members of the brotherhood.

The second degree of initiation and full acceptance in the brotherhood were "the mathematicians" (those who had learned in Greek)


You realise that the power of speech and the power of listening were both important.

Ever since "speaking out loud" something means having the power and the control over it, OR evoking it.

This is evident in the Herew obsession with "learning the true name of God" and then again "retaining the secret of the true name of God". Because you can call and control God, once you call his name.

This is evident in Christian practices, according to which "If you call my name I will be there with you". So if you call Jesus, or the angels or whoever they rush to your help. Hence AGAIN you control the entity once you SPEAK the name.

This is evident even in Harry Potter! Remember the "He whose name we do not call" ?


So people believe in the power of SOUND, of calling out the TRUE NAME of something ,


In occultism, each magician has a special personal name, which he NEVER sais to anyone, or it is believed that other people can harm him/her by using the TRUE name.


If I say for instance "I wish for so and so to get _________" Good or Bad, lots of people around the globe, believe that simply the act of phonating a deep wish, CREATES IT.

Read the secret, its full of that idea.

So yes, sound, has power. Saying something out loud gives you the power.

Not only for native americans, but for the whole wide world.

[greatenchantres]

`Oh forgot... Also...

How does bible start?

" In the begining there was Word, and the Word was with God"

In other translations this is "In the begining there was Logos" or "In the beggining there was Logic".

This is for in the original Greek text, where the word Logos is used, the concept is multiple...

Logos = Logic, Word and sound....

So how does everything start? It all starts with sound, with speech, with a word.

But the word HAS to have LOGIC behind it, in other words it HAS to be benevolent.

So what does God do? He says the name of things, and then the things are created in bible. Again, this shows that spoken words GET MANIFESTED IN THE MATERIAL PLANE.

Anyway, the power of spoken word is really evident here as well.




I believe that there are other traditions in the world where the creation of world has to do with sound.


In my country we have a common saying.... When somebody said a bad thing, we usually respond "you should bite your tongue". It is somehow believed that biting ones tongue, reverses the bad chain of actions, that the bad words that he uttered started.