Would you understand

[sweetspirit68]

I have read through the postings. Some get off the topic of relationships a bit, but the key word I am seeing in most of the writings is "Respect". Respecting someone is not just about religion, but about the person whom we are. Every aspect of us. These people who stepped into your lives and did not respect you or your way of life, were not good people, Christian or skin. Like many of you I was born into a god fearing family, but never felt I fit. They did not show me the respect I deserved as a human being. But then neither have others who were not christains. I recently got into a relationship where culture, lanuage, social class, and basic knowledge that most people born here in USA would know, was a conflict. But mainly I found out lies, no matter how tiny, each bit into the respect I had for him. He practices nothing, yet comes from a very rich heritage. He speaks 5 different dialics of central american indian tribes. All this knowledge I felt was wasted, when he would look at me and lie. My respect for him quickly turned to distrust, lothing and disgust. I think that is where we need to focus our thoughts, yes christain religion does not leave much room for individuality, but neither do our schools for that matter. Look how the children were taught long ago, each had a talent and the family/tribe would encourage that child to expand on it. Let's not focus just on religion, even though it is a big part of Native american life, but on those that are not respectful of others. We each take a risk every day of running into those people who do not respect others. Those who are close minded. Ask your self, Why were they put in our paths? What do we have to learn from our experience, surely not hate? The creator places these things in our path or allows them to happen for us to grow. It's when we quit looking and learning, that bitterness sets in. I have done my own searching for truths when it came to christainity, but found many conflicting messages. That I won't go into, but for those interested in a view of both worlds and maybe some answers? There is a good book. It's called Native American Theology. I found it quite an eye opener. Off the topic I went...lol..But this is the topic sort of being discussed by some. In closing my blurb here, just remember when you see something bad in others, we really need to examine our selves first. (then stomp the piss out of them)...kidding. Life's walk is one of learning, examining our selves and our world around us. If we cut down a tree, without ceremony, would that be respectful? Well the same goes for a person. You each have run into those that cut you down without ceremony or a thought as to what they are doing. Pray that the creator opens their eyes.

Sweet spirit from spring

[redrunner32]

I think it's unfortunate that your relationship ended the way it did and I am sorry. If I were in your shoes I would probably skip over for a while too. I understand but then there's always the other side and then it passes.

There is a posting below that says some non natives are into native just for the look....and I have to admit and even wrote long black hair is my thing......guess what? somebody is laughing at me because everyone I am meeting is bald or just cut their hair because they have to go to white man's court or other crazy things...I am even starting to laugh at myself....so what if I like long black hair....It's not all....since I have had the privelege of meeting native people I have been shown wonders and gien gifts that YES do not exist in the cultures I came from but I did not only come from here and this is not the first time so when I landed I landed softly and do my best to walk softly and hear things and listen. I am lucky enough to feel the land talk to me underneath all the concrete of the road and sometimes in the desert be lifted up by...(I don't know who they are) but there were alot of them....

Driving is always dangerous for me because I might miss a new bird...and cranking my neck to see thru the moonroof hurts but I 'm not going to stop...walking in the woods is a game for me of trying not to disturb how the leaves fell...if you do, you lose, that's how we played when we were kids.......

We made sweetgrass baskets and tapped maple trees and learned to tell time by the sun...and no we never could catch that wily fireball......and yes what if Mother Earth chooses not to support me anymore? Do you really think I don't understand what that means just because I like long black hair?

With 80,000 natives in the state of New York, I certainly hope I find mine soon.....I am not native nor am I trying to be, I just like what I have learned and that's it.

Ms. I wish you the very best in your search and I know your man is on the way to you......

[trueheartwoman (deleted)]

I knoiw this is an old topic.. apparently..but i felt compeeld to post after readinght every heart touching post of the topic starter my heart went out to her.... i must say.. that there are MANY diferent types of Christains!!1 and i have to say that one who never practices is hardly worthy of calling someone else strange or odd or being judgemental. U find it odd that this person who called them self Christian had no respect for the creatures and things of Gods creation= this is not any Christian way that i know of.... respect for the land and its creatures is SUPISED to be an innate part of The worship of God. Beng a good steward of the land is also. unfortunately there are some denominations/sects (particularly fundamentalists) who practcie a very judgemenatl form of their beliesf but most of them also spens a great deal of time inchurch so the rest (oof what the first lady spoke of) doesnt seem to follow! how rude he was! I found her expression of respect for all living things to be beautiful .but i am not fundamentalist or believe that i cannot learn something from all. i am a mostly vegetarian(for health i have no qualms about what anyone else eats and do eat meat on occasion especially Buffalo at powwows!) and an animal lover and the qualities of mercy, compassion and empathy are of the utmost importance to every Christian i have ever known. i do identify as Christian but i have lived long enough to be a seeker and an searcher for truth.. and i have investigated many many different denominations and because of judgementalism have walked away many times. i will not be a party to that. .
i believe people of different beliefs can be happy together.. as long as there is love and mutual respect and respect for your lover has nothing to do with religion it has to do with human dignity.

[(deleted)]

Tsisqua, the woman who started this thread, has shared an interesting view, and experience with us. Thank you.

I believe that when the man said that he would respect her "old ways", his actions didn't show that he truly understood and respected the old ways. Somehow, he couldn't stand in her moccasins and see with new eyes. I believe it was impossible for him to do it.

That doesn't mean that all men or all whites can't do it, but it is hard and you have to give up some of your biases/prejudices to get there. Walking a new and unknown path is never easy.

It takes a great shift in thinking, believing, and being, to go from a universe that was created for man, who was created in Gods image, to one of "equals" -- we are a part of the circle of life. I apologize if this doesn't fully reflect your definitions of Native and Christian beliefs, however it does require different ways of viewing the world.

Even science, tells us that everything in the Universe; earth, sky, rocks, water, fire, and yes, even people are made from the same stuff -- atoms / energy.

I believe that if you don't respect everything then you can't truly respect anything. Even if you don't understand it. Giving a gift of tobacco and saying a prayer is showing respect, and she honors all our brothers and sisters, including the rock, the Cedar, and the bird. Tsisqua, doesn't just talk the talk, she is walking the walk. Very honorable.

If you are out of sync with the circle of life, then the "old ways" can show us scam back in sync. Tsisqua listens to and feels all the heart beats around her.

When she talked about skipping over Christian, I don't believe that she it out of malice or from a lack of trying, rather she doesn't know how to bridge these two ways of being.

I believe that Tsisqua and some of the other women are also concerned with "walking the walk", and with whom you walk next to, in life's journey. I know I am. I could be wrong about all of this -- that's happened more than once.

I liked reading what the women had to say here, and I can tell that most of you have put a great deal of thought and heart into what you wrote.

Thank you all. Meguich.

HealingMan

[unchida_PREV (deleted)]

Never christians will understand native ways!!! Who has not absorbed with milk of mother native way, they only can imitate but accept it in heart can't! Christians are similar to slaves in the belief, who wants to be exempted and consequently looking for this freedom in our native ways.
You write there is no distinction who and in what believe. That in your soul also determines your life and outlook. Your relation to people and as you understand them. You can study our way accept all ceremonies and even to sleep with sweetgrass But where your roots? Where your understanding? You perceive world around how you was brought up and it is not important, in what you will play in your life, it will be only game, essence yours remain constant. It is impossible to mix oil with water. So do not try to mix it!
Native people for you only exotic: long hair, a red skin. You white have taken away from us everything, now try to take away our soul?? CAN NOT!
I would like to correctly understood me, I not against christians, moslems and others. Everyone has the right to live and believe in what they want. Simply respect our ways and do not play with it.


the wind knows where to find me

[ohdeerme_PREV (deleted)]

That's what I am talking about! You cannot mix oil with water....they will never understand...If creator meant for them to know he would have made them native... repsecting our ways is good, but it is not for non natives to know...It causes an unbalance in our world. My children grandchildren are full bloods and know our ways...this is somehting that they can never understand...I don't care how many rocks, animals,leaves or whatever, "talk to them"....

[blakcpanther]

I to Understand the traditional Spiritual ways of my native people. Sometimes I find it difficult to date X-tians because of their beliefs and they don't seem to respect mine. Living in Florida, where it is difficult to . meet anyone of my Spiritual ways, I find myself alone. Just playing the waiting game.

[merry]

I would like to say thank you to the lady who started this topic for sharing her experience with us. This type of experience happens often and is always heartbreaking. I am not native, I'm english but have a deep and thorough love and respect for all things native and would give much to be a part of the culture. I am a psychic and healer and work with an apache shaman and although I class myself as a spiritualist as far as religion goes, I would regard it as an honour to be thought worthy of being included in native traditions, culture and beliefs. Like another poster here, I too find an ache within that could only ever be fulfilled by the presence of a native man, but I am always the wrong age, the wrong look, the wrong heritage etc. I accept the path that has been set for me and try to walk as much as I can, with what little I know of the native culture and belief system, as I wish to know more and integrate it into my own life as it feels 'right' for me somehow.

ok now I'm waffling!!!

LIVE THE journey, FOR EVERY DESTINATION IS BUT A DOORWAY TO ANOTHER!

[5feettall_PREV (deleted)]

As a 1/2 Native woman having lived and married in both worlds my advice is use common sense. Pick your partner with wisdom.
Also if you have a problem with Native American anything PLEASE go else where.
My Spiritual World is the greatest gift I have received from my father's people. And no man would ever come between me and my Spiritual World. Men and women are the same (humans) no matter what Nationality they are. If they weren't they could not mate out side of there race/nationality.

Also as a Native who has study history I know that the Bible was used as justification to try and wipe out the Native Americans. So there is a valid reason for passing up those who call them selves Christians. I am only half Native and I think twice about that; even when they are Natives. Some Scars go deep. May-be one must be a true/close/ heard directly surviving member of those that were march and slaughters to truly understand how they feel about Christians.
Men/women (for you guys reading) come and go but the Creator is forever.

[gemma1485]

hi it's gemma i've just read your blog on differences haha and i can sooooo relate to that, even tho' i was baptised a catholic not many of my friends can relate to the fact that i attend spiritual churches and speak to my 'passed' members of my family and my guides and animals as well haha even down to plants ha they find it difficult as they were raised very strictly as catholics and think it's a bit far fetched and the devils work lol think i'm a few crumbs short of the biscuit haha but i've always been in touch with the world around me and with nature i've grown up with seeing the dead and sensing the energies as such of life- if that makes sense- only till recently within the last few years have been guided to take the shamanic route- i've always had a great sense of connection with native american culture since as far as i could remember- basically it's always been with me haha but i too experience that not a lot of people understand why i say my prayers to the four directions or why i go on journeys or the reason behind sweat lodge ceremony. it has created a lot of tension as they don't really understand and half heartedly have supported me - i think the best thing todo is just leave it be the spirits have a plan for all of us and i trust in them that they have someone for me to share this crazy life with lol and my craziness with- don't sweat it at the end of the day life is about having fun and just being who you are - love conquers all ! it's been great chatting with you take care - many blessings gemma

[blackfootedgirl]

`My first marriage was to a Christian man and he was the biggest hypocrite there was, he had no respect for others of a different faith, a different nationality or even those not as well off, but he could sure talk the talk, parroting what he was taught out of the bible, but not living "the word".
My Grandmother said "Birds Of a Feather" and as relationships are concerned, it may be the path of least resistance if there are commonalities as important as this in a persons life they share with another.
I find it hard to relate to Christians as I have been strung along by them while in desperate times of need, feeling like their feel good joke of the day. I got the impression that unless you were Christian they were not going to render help to a non-Christian.
Paganism is a very broad description of the earth-based religions which is similar to what "our" ancestors practiced prior to the explorers from the Old World showing up, forcing Christianity upon those they conquered as well as forbidding the very same Native Americans from Practicing their ancient traditions and sacred rituals as well as speaking their own indigenous languages,some are now on the verge of extinction.
Isn't Intolerance of each others differences is what got us into this big mess between cultures in the first place? Shouldn't differences between people be explored understood and defended ,rather than blindly criticized with uneducated ignorance, ie "Pagan Beasties" as one of our NA brothers put it, claiming to be Christian as he asked those who believed differently than he, to not bother him?
You will either come away understanding your fellow man better, see things differently for yourself or find that you have become stronger than before in your belief system by looking at the world through open , understanding, loving and non-biased eyes by walking with those different from yourself.

[merinass (deleted)]

cli wrote: I think it's quite pathetic to pass on a person's profile for being Christian. I find it pretty contradictory that if someone was to say they passed on a profile because of a person's race there would be quite a few people feeling insulted and, pretty much, apalled by a person's closemindedness.

And it IS closeminded to snub someone because of their religion- and how ironic Blackbird that you say 'those who have only embraced the X-tian faith are usually closed minded, and do not respect others'!!!!!! Isn't it very closeminded to generalise like that on millions of people!?!? Isn't it disrespectful to tar each member of the Christian faith with the same brush?!

And then you call yourself tolerant!!!!

All faiths hold the core moral message of 'love your brother as you love yourself'- we're all praying for a more peaceful, loving world in the end, whatever way we wish to express it.

And btw, a true Christian woman would not have just one 'night of pleasure' with someone who didn't respect her enough to not condemn her beliefs, so I really wouldn't wait up for that

I'm Catholic (as is pretty much everyone else in Ireland) but I do respect other people's beliefs but that doesn't mean compromising my own or treating others differently just because they don't have the same beliefs as me.


I actually stear clear of christians. I do give them a fair shot if they contact me but I am straight up about my spirituality. I am a Pagan..no particular practice as in Wiccan or Asatrue or heathen..just plain old Pagan works.
I let thoswe who contact me know straight up all about it..that it is who I am, what I do, it is non-negotiable and no..don't preach to me. Sound closed off? maybe, but my poast experience has taught me to just be straight up about it.
it, to me is simple, I have a choice to make..who am I going to choose..those whome I worship or some mere man? it's a no-brainer..the Lord and Lady wins hands down.

[celt01 (deleted)]

`People are turning away from organised religion in droves because it no longer offers peace of mind (mostly Christian religions). 'Men of the cloth' are being exposed world wide for abusing their positions as spiritual leaders for personal gain. To many, it feels like it's a 'Do as i say not as I do', syndrome. Across the globe people are begning to 'wake up' and they're hungry for spiritual knowledge after a long time of spiritual bankrupcy.

Some are so desperate to fill up the void that they let mind-control, charasmatic leaders blindside them into joining new age cults. Others are looking at older ways for enlightenment, answers, peace...and much more...either way, millions of people are begining to look for something meaningful. It's no wonder so many look to the Native American people's traditional way of life for answers.

Perhaps that's the attraction that Native Americans have for non Native Americans...the need to reach out to touch grounded souls. The people become more beautiful in the eyes of the seekers. Perhaps it's nothing more than a 'transferance' thing?

In my adopted country, Australia, similar awarenesses are rippling. People are begining to look at traditional Aboriginal medicines, beliefs, teachings and so on. So far as I can tell there's not the whole romantic link with non Aboriginals looking for a mate with Aboriginals and vice versa. I think that's because the Aboriginal abuse is still too raw to overcome. I teach kids who tell me their nannas' were part of the 'stolen generation'. The pain is still too real for many.

Anyway, the point of this post? Well I just think that perhaps people put 'Christian' on their profile bcause they have no other way of defining themselves.....that's how they grew up. But it may not be who they are becoming. I don't think 'fundamentalists' would look beyond their own narrow beliefs for someone from a different mindset.

"Be all you can be". :)