Search for the illusive Indian

[riverotter]

When I first came to this site I was hoping to meet my fellow skins. That has not been the case. I am a mature man who has dealt with all kinds of people during my life. What I have seen on this site are those who seek to be Indian. They think a INDIAN NAME will do, or a frame of mind or even the style of language they use.

This may upset a few people but as Frederick Douglas said, "I shall hew the line and let the chips fly in my face". Many people here claim Indian blood. But what does that mean? Are there responsibilities in those words? Are there duties or dues to be paid? For many of us being an "indian" is a 24 hour job. It is not someone we become, in the presence of other "indians". Of all the other races embodied in those people, why do they pick our destiny as their own. Why not one of the others?

Proof of this need to identify with indians is found in the selection of indian blood in the US Census. Here you can select if you are Indian or of Indian decent. Altho this has no legal standing it allows one to claim their indianess.

I wonder what is their point or importance of being indian is? There are those that say that they will not be there to "have our back" when it is needed. Will they fight for us? Will they speak out? Do they even admit to their friends of their heritage?

At least I'm glad of one thing. No one has claimed a famous name as their claim to fame. The White Man Royalty Syndrome has not risen its head as of yet. There are no Indian Princesses that has spawned those here. This is only my opinion as required by the rules of the" Disclaimer". I have spoken.

[eveningflower20]

`Hello, I'm new to the site and I haven't had the chance to chat or email with the others here. I hear you riverotter, being Native is a 24 hour job . . . it's living the "life" as soon as you wake up, to the time you give thanks for the days blessings at night. Even in your sleep you are full aware that your dreams are messengers . . . I take time in the morning to assess my dreams, to find the meaning in the ones that are vibrant and remain engrained in my mind. I am full blood Pima, a few of the remaining. I know and speak my language, I know my heritage and my culture. Being Native isn't a fashion statement only to be brought out when it suits you. But we must also remember riverotter, that we, the 'mature' ones must teach the ones that thirst for their cultural identity, for they are the lost ones and we must try to bring them home. Isn't that what we're supposed to do? There are many young ones out there who have lost the way, but they want to know their past and I for one, am willing to teach them. Thank you for listening.

[johnmarlon (deleted)]

Strange how one can say "'indian' is a 24 hour job", and at the same time openly bash people for supposedly trying to be Indian.

I once heard an elder tell me that it was foretold that many of the young ones would stray from their ways and that the light skinned would help to pick them back up.

Where's the wrong in this? (annoying perhaps?)

I personally don't see how these people, who this one speaks about, how they are negatively affecting him and other "skins"...
Where I live I've never heard the word skins growing up, although; I have heard it on the rez. I figure it's because so many of us from the city have lighter skinned relatives and those before us chose not to use such a word around those relatives..

[kds1 (deleted)]

`River Otter, I agree with you completely. I was looking for a site to link up with other Natives and perhaps this isn't it. This site seems to perform some other function. Seen it before and it makes me uncomfortable. John Marlon, I think it makes me uncomfortable for all the reasons that have plagued tribes for generations - stereotyping, whether 'positive' or negative is exactly that - stereotyping. It is not accurate representation. It fails to take into account individual differences, and instead lumps Indians into the fall back of 'spirituality', 'one with nature', and all those other inaccurate portraits. Inaccurate because they are applied blanket fashion without separating tribes, cultures, generations, individuals. It is no more accurate than me saying that all of Arizona is dry wasteland.
And it does feel like they are attempting to jump on some sort of stereotypical bandwagon. Why not choose to be interested in Scottish history, Welsh history, why not immerse themselves in the ways of their Viking ancestors, their Roman ancestors? Why pick (on) Indians? I think it is because of the romantic and inaccurate stereotypes. And those stereotypes ARE very damaging to tribes when they represent themselves at housing commissions, BIA hearings, attempt to have stimulus plans passed for tribes and anything else that the modern world requires (and that we do). The overwhelming stereotypes fog the perceptions of those that we would like to see us accurately - politicians, law makers, financiers, judges, etc. The portrait of today's Indian needs to be accurate.
I once read, and was struck by, a phrase that went something like: You know you're Indian when many times you wish you weren't. It might have been Sherman Alexie from one of his books. But I think that point, and river otter's point is that it's not all smoke, sage and drums and spirituality. It's damn hard work. It's tons of volunteer hours for your tribe to further economic development, housing and even cleaning the tribal center toilets. It's spending your own money to go to Indian ed conferences and tribal conferences because you know leaders of other tribes will be there and you need to network. It's cringing when you hear teachers mangling and stereotyping their "Indian unit". It's trying your best to continue your grandparent's work in education in the tribe. It's persuading elders that progress is okay and IS, in fact, progress. It's giving up time with your own kids for the tribe and sacrificing your own finances many times. THAT'S being Indian. I could go on and on. But I wanted to meet and speak with others who are Indian and know from first hand experience what it feels like and is. not just what they want it to be, have heard that it is, and imagine it to be in a perfect world. It's damn hard work.

[johnmarlon (deleted)]

The point I'm making is, people are going to admire this indian image no matter what one says, sitting there putting down what they're doing isn't doing any good. I see it as a negative act to openly put those people down.

To claim that you know what a real indian is... is in itself a bit off the wall if you ask me.

Being humble about the situation is what I'm getting at.

hurting an indian image?....come one...

The word 'Indian' itself is an off image.

[(deleted)]

johnmarlon wrote: The point I'm making is, people are going to admire this indian image no matter what one says, sitting there putting down what they're doing isn't doing any good. I see it as a negative act to openly put those people down.

To claim that you know what a real indian is... is in itself a bit off the wall if you ask me.

Being humble about the situation is what I'm getting at.

hurting an indian image?....come one...

The word 'Indian' itself is an off image.



YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT JOHNMARLON..

OH BY THE WAY IT IS HARD JUST BEING HUMAN!!OH BY THE WAY
CHEWY IS NOT NATIVE, BUT INTO NATURE..

[novemberpain (deleted)]

`It is easy to Judge and be judged. Most people that claim to be Indian aren't aware of exactly what native americans are taught, what they witness and what they endure, while growing up. People all want to be accepted and to have a place where they belong, and there isn't anything wrong with that . Romanticizing being a "Native American" is a painful mistake, though. It is tough being an indian and even tougher being white with indian blood because neither race accepts the person of mixed races. I have lived on a reservation, been classified because of the lightness of my skin, and having been married to a full blood(?) indian. I believe that most native people whom are raised on the rez just want to be left alone. Our child is light skinned and is made fun of by white children and shunned by native children. I don't live on a rez, any more, but i continue to honor those that lived before me. Who made it right or wrong to be different ? A mixed blood friend once told me, If full blood native's aren't proud of their heritage why should i be? I had another Native friend, whom lives on a rez, tell me that she is ashamed of being Native, because of what goes on at the rez. I agree with John, and i understand both sides of this issue. I, also, understand the caution 'Native's' show concerning people who claim to be native but weren't raised with knowledge and the experience of being native. Being a "American Indian" is a way of life. The actions, language, and knowledge of the culture of the tribe, and it's history is taught and ingrained from birth. Even then, a life time isn't enough to learn . I have "In laws" whom are married to other races, such as; African, mexican, and caucasian races. This is a discussion that is endless and many people will continue to disagree. I have tried for many years to find where i belonged and to fit in somewhere, maybe, in the middle. It didn't happen and now i walk my own path. I feel that we are all Children of God," Our Creator", and should accept the others differences, learn from them, and live our own lives with criticism and judgements. I claim to be native american because that is whom i am in my soul, and heart. I try, daily, to live my live, as the woman that i am. . I am proud of my Irsh, and Cherokee Blood. I have been and most likely will be criticized for the rest of my life because of the life i choose to live. I pray each day, for guidance, inner strength, and patience. Peace comes with acceptance and understanding. I guess, our differences are what make us all special. I wish you all "peace, and hope."

[celt01 (deleted)]

`I agree with Novemberpain that "we should accept others' differences". Maybe people who claim to be exclusively one thing are potentially limiting their own growth? Who knows.

There are millions of people on a world-scale who are aware of some sort of spiritual tilt in human consciousness but have no clue how to be a part of it or how to connect with people who do know. So what if they come looking among American Native cultures? It's not like they want to move into your home, family or even your skin. They just want to be part of a greater something. If they come to the wrong place looking, that should be OK. They'll move on eventually when they realise that what they're looking for isn't here.

I often read comments from people on here who say things like 'why don't these people go claim to be Scottish instead of native'. Well as a scots woman let me tell you they do...millions of them. I live in Australia now and everytime I open my mouth in front of strangers they comment on my scottish accent and 9 times out of 10 they'll claim some vague scottish ancestory, great, great grandpa or somebody moved from scotland way back during the flood. Millions of Americans claim to actually BE scottish even though nobody in their family has set foot in Scotland during living memory.

Good for them if it gives them some peace. it means nothing to me or my family or my clan if someone claims association.

When 'Brave Heart' first came out Scots people everywhere cringed because it turned the brutality and single minded cruelty of the English crown against the scots into some sort of romantic epic. Our history is awful and as as other cultures mistreated by the army. But that's NOT who we are now, that's our history from hundreds of years ago, and yet people from around the world still think that's what being Scottish is now. I personally don't care, good luck to them if they gain any happiness from it.

Maybe that's what people do when they turn to native american cultures. they take the struggles from history and turn them into epics of physical courage and spiritual hope and want to be a part of it.

Peace to them even if they have it wrong on this site, may they find the spiritul guidance from others who don't think badly of them for their quest.

I write from the heart with no disrespect intended to anyone.

[novemberpain (deleted)]

`Thank You, Celt01. In my adult years i have met many people,and most of these people have looked for acceptance and a place in this world, where they can be happy. What is wrong with that? True happiness starts in the heart and soul. Each person has to acknowledge their faults, accept their mistakes and other's mistakes. Forgiveness of these mistakes is part of healing and a away to find inner peace. The only way to find real love and forgiveness is to like one's self first, and to accept that no one is perfect. Love is a gift from the creator that is in our hearts, at birth. Our hardest lesson is learning how to accept differences, forgive others and learning to love others regardless of these differences and mistakes. When we learn to give unconditional love, without wanting any thing in return (or trying to use control, manipulation, and/or mind games,) we come closer to finding "Real Love" . Having searched for many years," for Real Love", i witnessed,and was involved in many situations that tested the inner strength in my heart. I tried to find out if i belonged on the native path, the white path, or some where in between. I made the decision to accept who i am and to live my life on my own path. I walk in both worlds, with peace in my heart and soul. To try to ignore my white heritage would make me a liar, and hypocrite. Myspelling has a lot to be desired. To claim to be a native would make me a fraud,and liar, also. I am what i am. A woman with white and cherokee blood in my veins. I, do, however, try to live my life with respect for both cultures. I have decided to learn as much as i can about both sides of my bloodline, and i am raising my daughter to keepan open mind, also. Her father is full blood cherokee,and i have left the decision to her, on what path she wishes to follow. She has chosen to honor her praternal grandparents, and to live her life as what she is. A registered Mix blood cherokee teenage girl. I am learning, with her, more about our cherokee heritage. Does that make us wrong,because we no longer live on a reservation, and try hold onto our own beliefs? It is very easy to judge mixed blood, light skinned people like us, whom choose to hold onto our own identities. Society is gotten lost in the so called struggle to gain progressand modernization. We have lost so much of our heritage,morales, belief's, and values. The sacred institution of marriage has been ground into the dust, and family has paid the cost. Our children are growing up disfunctional,and misguided. We judge people whom are different, looking for acceptance, as wanna be's, and push them away. I believe that the traditional cherokee's along time ago, used to adopt, and intermarry with people of other races. This subject could go on and on, but i stand by my feeling's, and belief's. Like i wrote, earlier, "Real Love", starts in the heart, and should begin with acceptance, and forgiveness of mistakes that have been made. I wish peace to all and apologize if i have offended anyone.

[celt01 (deleted)]

`Novemberpain, you are a breath of fresh air. I wonder what the world would be like if more people opened their hearts as you have. Different cultures seem to be so busy talking at each other instead of talking to each other.

I include myself...I'm still learning from my own mistakes.

[novemberpain (deleted)]

`Celt01, I have 3 siblings,and we all have different beliefs and likes. My older brother likes to listen to irish drinking music, my younger brother likes old folk lore songs from the civil war era, and my sister & i listen to pretty much anything.I ,however, love native american flute music, and one of my favorite groups is called "Redthunder". Growing up with an Irish surname, and being part cherokee caused me to get teased a lot. As an adult, i tan easy, but as a child i had freckles. People tend to be self destructive,when it comes to not learning from their mistakes, holding onto bitterness, and allowing themselves to believe that anyone/anything that is different is ugly or bad. I am not raising my daughter to think like most girl's her age. I am trying to show her than having an open mind and being positive will save her from being disappointed or let down by people as much. Our society is very flawed and judgemental. Real happiness can't be bought, and there is way too much emphasis put on materialistic items as we bring up and teach our children. In white society, the parents are the care givers,and in our modern times, many children feel ignored and their feelings misunderstood, because parents are too busy working and earning money to buy these materialistic wanted items. In traditional native families the entire family teach and raise the children.The young people learn many different view points, and so often they grow up wiser, and not feeling rejected or ignored. This is just one fact and difference that supports beliefs concerning our society's faults and misguided goals. Have a great week celt01 and thank you for your sweet comment.

[rblyl (deleted)]

`RIVEROTTER...agree or disagree, your posts are missed old friend. Rebelyell

[rblyl (deleted)]

`I have thot of this post off and on since I read it. I have a lot of respect for both Riverotter and Johnmarlon. I dont know exactly if what Riverotter meant here when he said "of all the races embodying those people why do they pick ovr destiny as thier own..?" not svre of he was talking abovt those with mixed Native heritage, or jvst plain on mix of Evropean lineages? (sorry my "yews" are 'v's for now while awaiting my keypad.) Anyway, I think of this deal off and on here and all I can say is for myself..being very mixed (Nordic, Semetic, and Siovx) it is in some way a search for "who is God?"...not who's prettier or more intrigving as a people. Chief Sealth is said to have said, "yovr God is not ovr God!" (and for good reason..he was in an awfvl position and I have no dovbt felt terrible betrayal at the time). So do yov, if yovr beloved Brothers grandson comes to yov, do yov reject him becavse he has another blood rvnning throvgh his veins as well... no favlt of his own??? We do not chose that destiny before birth (no matter that the New Agers say we do). Is my God the God of my grandfathers? Or that of my grandmother? Or the adopted God later on...all having different names Wakan Tanka, Yahweh, or Jesvs? For some of vs the search for identity is the search for God. Becavse I am not convinced they are all the same God/Creator...was history a Gods doing (as in the pained words of Chief Sealth), or mans doing sing Gods name to do his 'dirty work' for a greedy agenda? I dont know..and thats what I want to find ovt...dont think I will ever really know, maybe I can find answers that give some measvre of peace tho. with all of this family travma and drama of the past and the strvggle with Creation and identity.
Thats my own 'thing'...everyone has thier own reason-however bizarre sometimes, for enchantment with a particvlar grovp of peoples. I am not in search for the 'illvsive Indian', I am in search for the illvsive God.

[trubblemaka (deleted)]

`hmmm

[zoupi]

God is multiple by the fact that each people believe in his own one but the simple notion of a lord, god can only be unique.

I'm not someone with personal beliefs but I have well more respect for the notion of a gold than all the rules and powers some peoples give to themselves arging they have been choosen by this gold.

Human vanity has no limit and I'm not someone liking to submit herself to any personal vanity !