Mitakuye Oyasin. Lakota for ‘All my relationsÃ

[ravenboy (deleted)]

Ho! Mitakuye Oyasin. Lakota for All my relations or Cherokee for We are all related.

Has anyone here heard of the tree of life? Have you seen that out of Africa, there was one group that made it out onto the rest of the world and spread around, from that African group of people came Asians, Native Americans (who are next of kin to Asians), Europeans, Scandinavians, Eastern Europeans, Middle Eastern (not just jews and arabs who are even closer related through more recent times than many other Middle Eastern peoples) and everyone else. There were more movements through later history as well. Indo-Europeans for instance, wandered into Europe from Asia, whereas Native Americans wandered out of Asia in the other direction, to America, thousands of years ago, before the time of the pyramids.

Did you know that the reason that some people became paler was that, whereas their ancestors had dark skin, when they moved out of Africa and into Europe, where the light from the sun was not as strong as it was in Africa, they were becoming Vitamin D deficient because their dark skin would block the sun too well. They had to become paler in order for them to absorb the benefits from the sun that would help them with their bodies producing necessary nutrients. So, we ALL started out dark in order to be protected from overexposure to the African Sun. Even if youre the palest, whitest so called Caucasian (and one clue is in that name...CaucASIAN, even though that naming might not be correct as such) your ancestors were dark-skinned. We are all, in truth, related, just like the Cherokee words say “Ho! Mitakuye Oyasin.

For us to care about the minute details of individual countries is all good, but we need to do it with a mind towards helping the entire world. This planet is like one body in truth. One living, breathing organism if you will, one life. If it is hurt in one place, it is hurt on its own body. Whether your leg or arm hurts, it is still the same body being affected. When the nuclear plant in Russia melted down, the winds carried the pollution across large areas of Europe, even as far as England...nature has no borders. Pollute the water in one place and it will affect the children of other nations across borders...if this world dies, we ALL die. When wars are carried out in one country and the environment there is harmed by bombs, that same environment is connected to the rest of the worlds environment. Grass has no nationality...trees do not have national flags. It is indeed a healthy thing to view the earth as our symbolical mother...because it sustains us in so many ways. Whatever your beliefs about God, a Creator, Wakantanka...the core message is the same...and the differences dont matter enough to make war over. Live and let live. Respect and be respected. Allow and be allowed. Love and be loved.

Native Americans have had many of these views as part of their cultural, religious and historical heritage, which is why they are more relevant than ever. Because we are in very sad times as far as the future of the human race is concerned and above all, the future of this planet, upon which our survival depends. Even though not being a native myself, yet looking very much like one, as indeed many of my relations do; I have and am still studying their various histories and cultures (of which there are so many, the Native world is a universe in itself, from the various tribes of North America through to South America, across roughly 12 000 years of history to date). It is these studies that have made me appreciate their culture, and that is only one part of their heritage. There is a collective fountain of wisdom from them which should be absorbed, taught and learned and utilised by the rest of humanity because it will help us all and belongs to our collective, related history. If we lose one group of people, we lose a part of our collective human body and we have already and are still, losing our human Native American heritage, something that saddens me to my core. We are all one, Mitakuye Oyasin, We are all one, Mitakuye Oyasin!

Just consider our seemingly separate languages, there are signs in that too. Consider the word star. That is English...in Dutch it would be ster; in Spanish it would be estrella, still containing the letters s, t, a and r. In Swedish it would be stjarna (with two dots above the a); in Italian it is stella; in Romanian it is straluci...these are relatively close countries, but go as far away as India (as in South Asian Indians) and their language of Hindi (and in fact also the Pakistani language of Urdu)...the word for star is sitara.

The sooner we realise these things, the sooner we can become one. One in aim, one in protecting everyone and everything for the benefit of our children, our future generations, who all come from the same people originally. The sooner we can crush the borders inherent in our own minds, the sooner we will become even freer to achieve and solve many so called problems that are present only because of our way of thinking. What we think, we do, what we do, becomes our habits and if these are based on negative things...then our future will be negative. Why are we surprised at the state of the world today? Look at our habits...our lifestyles. There are landfills everywhere with chemically created things such as various plastics that are harmful to the world.

We need to put our efforts together to direct the world towards solving the very necessary issues facing it...and us as a consequence. Politicians, while subtly (and sometimes bluntly) trying to influence us in the directions that their various guides (financially motivated individual top members of corporations whose only aim is to maximise financial gains with calculated costs, including lives of humans) prods them to do, will often change their tunes according to the spirit of the time. We can influence our times...to change the direction of our world...it has been heading for destructive results for a long time, in the next coming decades the water levels will most likely rise...the poles are already melting, faster than what was first anticipated by scientists and as it does so...it will not only increase the water levels of the world, eating up lands where many people live, but it can also affect the temperature of the sea which could spark a new ice age...because we get a lot of warm weather in some places (i.e. northern parts of Europe and others) as a result of the warm streams that travel the ocean and go around. If the cold ice of the poles melt, it will go into the water...an increase in cold water...will cool the water temperature in general and as a consequence, the temperature of the world.

We need to affect the powers that may be, even though it is a thoroughly corrupt system, also something that we ourselves, as human beings, are to blame for. But to focus on a solution, we need to become aware of these things and believe me, the insanity is that there are enough human interests who do not want us to become aware of this...because they will lose out on their short-sighted personal gains. The worst part is that they are quite powerful in terms of the current human created system and values (financial power). That has always been the case anyhow...and is what these people use to their advantage. Some peoples greed has gotten the better of them...others involve themselves with it willingly with a mentality of gain or lose, watch out for yourself, cause no one else will, live or die and sometimes unwittingly, but always in the end the sentiment of kill or be killed...this is a path that is destructive for the human soul and many are those that have pursued the goals of money, power and control, sometimes starting out with positive intentions but almost always becoming controlled themselves...and not actually being able to affect the world in a positive way.

There are so many of these soul-ill individuals who are in places of power because the structure of the power system that has been put in place all over the world, attracts these kinds of people. We have set the wrong people to rule us by accepting or through sheer resigned consent, letting this system take over. There are large groups of people of the world who will merely allow themselves to be controlled...as long as their own short-sighted pleasures and desires are fulfilled. The consequence for the world as a whole, the web of life and each member of it (every single living organism, plant and being) is catastrophical and the results can be viewed as we speak. We have strange illnesses affecting us as a direct consequence of our own pollution of the environment and financially motivated manipulation of our food, watering down the benefits while maximising the profits. When greed rules...nothing good comes of it. We have to change this...and we can only change it if we become aware. Trust me, I hate politics, but this isnt an interest in politics...this is an interest in survival...in affecting the web of life, of which we are all a part and will only have this short span of opportunity called life, to affect in a positive way. That is my personal motivation. And it is fuelled by the love that I feel and have felt from my childhood, for all my relations...all humankind and the animal and plant worlds, this earth and everything in and on it!

To affect the web of life in a positive way can be a small enough thing like working at a cat or dog sanctuary...a place where I would never have to put down an animal like they do in some veterinary clinics (even though I have the aptitude of being able to become a veterinarian, I cannot deal with putting animals down...I cannot deal with seeing an animal being injected and see the light of life go out of its eyes, I cannot deal with that at all...granted that there are some situations, where it would perhaps be absolutely necessary but I am a great believer in natural death). But there is a bigger picture which we should all become aware of, in fact, we NEED to become aware of it because we are being fooled...and the land around us, the trees, the animals, the life, is being ripped out, sold and destroyed as we speak and this has been going on for far too long already (many were the native elders who spoke of this, and they too referred to it as an illness of the heart that would cause a human to treat the earth this way...and nothing has changed, in fact it has only become a thousand times worse). We need to change this...for the survival of the web of life...because it is too ill...for our own survival. We can only do this if we become aware of the truth of what is happening. Some say we are already too late...and yet, still we need to affect the web of life in a positive way because there is no other positive choice for us.

Idealistic thinking you might say...? Well, of course, but it is based on the reality of the desperation of our situation. I dont harbour any illusions or beliefs that we will all be united at all times, there is too much variety in thinking and desires, some of which clash, but if we can adopt the principle of live and let live in truth and really practice it...then we can have a lot less problems.

But above all, right now, we dont have to believe, we actually have to STOP BELIEVING. We need to STOP BELIEVING those who spin webs of illusions, taking away our attention from the real web of life. They have been duping, falsifying, lying, and dont forget, ENTERTAINING and cheating the people of the world for such a long time that you would indeed be shocked to realise how long it actually is. They do not hold any allegiance to any flags or nations, they laugh at the ones who do because it is what they need people to believe so that they can rule over them. When two people are fighting, watch out, because there will be a third and/or fourth one who will have pitted them against each other. The world has a third interest or power behind almost every conflict...they earn from every war...they have no religion, no belief, no nationality and no allegiance other than to their own greedy selves.

We need to STOP BELIEVING that one of us is better than the other. We need to STOP BELIEVING in our own supremacy over another. We need to STOP BELIEVING that it cant work. We need to STOP BELIEVING what they are selling us. A new and improved tomato, genetically modified food, a new television war, a new bomb that doesnt kill people. We need to STOP BELIEVING the ones who show us a supposedly good way in the name of nationalism and patriotism just because we have been made to believe that this is the way to good. We need to STOP BELIEVING the so called experts who advise us not to worry or not to do anything but sit still and wait for others to greedily reap the benefits of our own inaction. We have to STOP BELIEVING our own fears of the unknown that threatens us with scary things we do not want to acknowledge or see. We need to STOP BELIEVING that we cant change this world, that we dont have the power to change the world if we choose to. We need to STOP BELIEVING those who say that this is not possible. When we all die, and if we have to face our own actions in life...we will be questioned about this, and this goes for every religion and belief system in one form or another.

We can and should all have our own beliefs, our own faiths, but look to what unites us, not what separates us, because the history of the world and all humans are our collective histories, none less important or greater than the other.

Wake up...all my relations, Mitakuye Oyasin!

/Ravenboy 20090610, writing from The Midlands, England

[kaskiyeh (deleted)]

`Hmmm, had my DNA check no where does it say I descended from Africa..
Did the sun or lack of sun change eye color?
That is a speculation ...

[ravenboy (deleted)]

`
Perhaps you'd like to think it is speculation...and your right to your opinion is respected. But there will be fewer who will be able to deny what is becoming far more evident as time goes on. It is even logical in itself and as for eye colour, it varies naturally as does a number of other characteristics in humans, especially over the time that people have existed.

As for genetics, I don't know if you know of something called the 'Eve gene'. Both men and women have it, but it is only inherited through the woman. Hence, by tracking it through various women, it has been discovered that ALL women are related, and obviously all men too of course, but it cannot be proven through them. Humanity shares this gene and it leads back to a few number of women, the most I've heard is 8 different women and some have pulled it back to numbers even less than that.

Genetics are interesting. Recently it was shown that a number of Europeans, when their genes were tested, were rarely shown to be pure Europeans...it was amazing how some, even though looking purely white and European, actually hailed from Mongolians (which was the case with a VERY British lady), various Eastern Europeans, middle eastern and Asian origins. There is actually no such thing as a pure European in reality. They are called so now because they've lived there for a long time but in truth they weren't living there from the beginning.

We all hail from somewhere and that somewhere hails from something else too, and it leads farther back than what many people are either willing to accept out of fear and/or carrying a sense of self-identity based upon values that will not allow for what is perceived to be an alien element in their ancestry. Such as anything black or dark-skinned or perhaps people who have once been considered an enemy, the hatreds of which may still be alive not far beneath the surface. It is interesting when we have to face our own prejudices, things we may never have thought we had. It is important however because these are usually the prejudices that politicians and others exploit to keep conflicts and in worse cases, wars alive.

Others of course simply will not accept this on religious or other grounds, and yet more might believe this point blank because they arent convinced. But all evidence is contradicting these old, but established, beliefs. The insides of ourselves is giving evidence against such thoughts as it is proving our relationship. And this is not conjecture, but nowadays, a measurable characteristic.

The variety in humanity isnt an indication of separation, this possibility for variation is inherent in the human species. Did you know of the blonde and blue eyed Spaniards in northern Spain? The blue eyed and blonde people in Turkey? Or the light-haired, lights-skinned, green and grey eyed Afghanis and the Chinese looking groups of the same people. There are also very Mongolian looking Turks and so on. Put a Mexican side by side with a South Asian Indian and you will often not be able to tell the difference. And yet, physical features do not prove everything. And these things have also been influenced in relative recent history (Alexander the Greats escapades into Asia). But as I stated above, it is what is being found out genetically that is really revealing the facts. And that is before genetics has even developed fully. We will find out ever more as the technology of it all develops further.

However, there is already enough evidence to cement the very clear relationship between all humanity. We are not separate and different...we are actually all one and the differences are actually indicative of this too, it is the exception that proves the rule really. And the Native elders knew this without the need for any genetic findings. Sometimes...to know in the heart is the first step to a truth yet not established outside of ourselves, in the frame of collective knowledge. Ask yourself...and see what your heart says...if it is able to answer without fear /smiles.


As an end note, I do not of course, by referring to the prejudices mentioned, mean that anyone who reads or posts this actually thinks or feels this way. Ive only used these things to display examples of various ways of thinking and feeling, not to accuse anyone here of it. Peace!

[kaskiyeh (deleted)]

`We are all related because we are all human beings, but I do not believe we all came from Africa which is my right as a free thinker.So what your saying is we came across the Bering Straight and it had a one way sign so we could only come from Africa I choose not to believe that..I also don't believe we came from Apes.. How does anyone know are ancestor didn't come from outer space. This is not the only planet with people on it !!

I had my Mitochondrial DNA test done...
I belong to Haplogroup A predominantly found in the America's. My particular sequence is considered to be the basal haplotype within haplogroup A. This is found in numerous Native American populations.In the data base my sequence matches sequences from the Chukchee Peninsula Natives, Aleutian Island, Nuu Chah Nulth, Bella Coola, Haia, and Cheyanne.Apache,Navajo, Central Mexico, and the Pacific Coast...

I do not want to have a long debate about this as I will believe what I want and you will also. To each his own...

[johnmarlon (deleted)]

I've always had a hard time accepting science as fact in certain circumstances such as this. The people that practice this kind of genealogical science are an elite few. The science involved and the complexity behind strands of DNA has me wondering how the elite few could be trusted to base something on fact.

There are VERY powerful people in this world. Could they not write history as they see fit?

This influence can be quite easy when there is this "small elite group." That's where my doubt comes in.

Acheology has always been practiced by small groups of people also. People that typically need government papers in regards to archeological finds.

Science never seems to respect anothers view of the world. It shows this disrespect through attempting to convince and label highly controversial complex subjects as fact.

I'd not say science is wrong, I'm not sure the scientific community can say the same to me.

[rblyl (deleted)]

`i think of science as a very new religion on the block.

[trubblemaka (deleted)]

`holy friggin crap????!! i wore out three sets of retinas reading all that!

[ravenboy (deleted)]

First of all, thank you to you all for responding with your thoughts, I appreciate it /smiles. Its both enlightening and also thought-provoking...in a good way. Not to mention funny, smiles@trubblemaka.

To Kaskiyeh, yes, I respect your right to your views, that was one of the main points of what I wrote, the mutual respect that is required between all. And if everyone can see the relationship between us, we may not mistreat each other and actually come to respect each others thoughts, views and feelings more. There are several bridges that need to be crossed for that to happen and the fact that scientific discoveries and other values and thoughts from before (such as Native Americans, various religions etc) and after, actually already support the discoveries, that we are all related, is one of the keys to humanity reaching a greater degree of unity. That has to be a good thing...if we can think of “the other not as a stranger, but a relation, distant or otherwise, but a relation nevertheless.

As for genetic testing...you can go further back too, but it depends on what is set out to be found in the first place and what aspect of it that is tested. There are however still gaps that cannot be bridged with the current technology but it is heading in one direction. And the Eve gene is one of the strongest indicators of our collective past.

This does, however, NOT answer the question of whether we hail from apes or not. We may, we may not. I only know that there is NOT any conclusive evidence as to the validity of that theory...and I am not sure it will ever be found. It is very much a case of a theory being propagated as fact, which is a crime in my mind and does the scientific community no favour.

Also, consider Lucy, who is one of the eldest humanoids found, and the one frequently used to put weight towards the argument of humans descending from apes. Lucy has a foot where the first toe is actually a finger, protruding from the side as it would on a chimpanzee. The interesting thing is that there is a footprint, which is like a humans footprint, with a normal toe where it should be, that is older than Lucy. It was found in some lava like substance in Indonesia or somewhere similar, dating back farther than Lucy. This is conveniently not mentioned very much by those who hold religiously to the theory of evolution with a regard to humans descending from apes. So yes, there are some great question marks regarding that theory, one that I do not accept as fact at all.

The other interesting thing about this theory is that it still doesnt explain where we all come from originally...in a manner, it doesnt matter if we are from apes or not...it still leaves a big gap at the beginning of things. And if, for some reason, the apes developed from something into being what they are...what is to say that other things didnt develop from something else and that one of those were human beings?

Ultimately, however, there is a clear relationship between all life on this planet, something that the Native thinkers of old spoke of clearly, before any of the modern theorists and propagators of modern science had even formulated their theories. And time and again, the elders tried desperately to explain these things to the greed-stricken and soul-ill invaders that came later on to the Americas...to no avail however.

By the way Kaskiyeh, some of the information I have spoken of, are not things that the entire scientific community is happy about. Take the Eve gene for instance...it is something that some of them didnt want to be discovered because it contradicts some of their theories and beliefs. Especially if some things end up supporting some of their perceived opponents, such as religions and what not.

[ravenboy (deleted)]

`Thanks John, for writing what you wrote, it really made me think...and I agree with what you wrote as well /smiles.

Quote: I've always had a hard time accepting science as fact in certain circumstances such as this. The people that practice this kind of genealogical science are an elite few. The science involved and the complexity behind strands of DNA has me wondering how the elite few could be trusted to base something on fact.

Not only CERTAIN circumstances, but many. Science is by its very nature a “discovery based knowledge, which is clearly limiting. Just because you discover something doesnt mean that youll understand WHAT it is that you have discovered. There is a HUGE and amazing gap of knowledge right there which inevitably leads to speculation and theories...hardly facts even though they are presented as such by over-zealous “scientists and their supporters. In this manner the people and supporters of science do resemble a religion, which Rblyl kindly pointed out. Just the stories of archaeologists and scientists finding a tooth and making a human of it, before discovering that the tooth actually belonged to an extinct type of pig, shows how subjective the mindsets and theories of some of them actually are (it would be difficult to find these stories in any of the established books that support the theory of evolution firmly...youd have to look around at some other sources to find out about these things...read about the famous Leakey familys early endeavours).

The scientific community isnt as unified as you might think though. There are many people within that community who have very healthy standpoints and do not hesitate to make it known. You can also see that the scientific community isnt all cohesive from the various and, oftentimes, opposing viewpoints that are presented. This leaves many of the rest of us guessing at what may or may not be right or true. I think, finding out about the respective scientists histories and motivations, plus, above all, tracing “them back to their various “supporters and “financial motivators if any, will give further answers to their objectivity or lack thereof. I know of people within the scientific community that are extremely objective and as concerned with finding out true information without the, often, hit and miss speculation that some involve themselves in, as anyone else. Some of them have in fact been mistreated by some scientific communities.


Quote: There are VERY powerful people in this world. Could they not write history as they see fit?

This influence can be quite easy when there is this "small elite group." That's where my doubt comes in.

Not only could they, but they have done that very thing time and again. There is ample evidence to support what you are saying. It is as fact in other words. Again however, there are some elite groups and they AND their information should naturally be doubted before ever being believed...if at all /smiles.


Quote: Acheology has always been practiced by small groups of people also. People that typically need government papers in regards to archeological finds.

Yes, but even my friend who studied archaeology and even though there is some control there, more in some places than others, it left him free to do with much of the information as he pleased. No one could stop him from writing his papers. The great bridge for an independent to cross is the established scientific community which publishes various papers and journals with information that they tend to be very selective about. Anything that does not conform to the “standard beliefs tends to be left out which shows a very clear bias towards a certain way of thinking. In this again, they are no less a religion than any of the other ones. And this information is presented to the masses but there is more information than this, some by independents who are not part of the scientific community, or at least not the established ones. The government supported ones are the worst in many cases, and yet the one that the masses draw much of their information from.


Quote: Science never seems to respect anothers view of the world. It shows this disrespect through attempting to convince and label highly controversial complex subjects as fact.

Yes, once again I agree completely. The worst offenders are those who mock other peoples views and thoughts, which happens more often than one might think and not just in high places where they summarily ignore any information coming from outside of their own community. The behaviour of which is very much like a closed department to which access will only be gained if you adhere and conform to their standards. A bit gangster-like if you ask me... It happens in schools as well...when a child hesitantly states that the theory of evolution as regards humans, that were supposedly hailing from apes, is a theory, he or she might be laughed at by the teacher and consequently other students when in fact it is a theory and not a fact at all. The funny thing is that the individual that points out that it is a theory, is being more scientific and objective than the supporters who see the theory as fact before it has been proven to be so.

Quote: I'd not say science is wrong, I'm not sure the scientific community can say the same to me.

Some of them could probably say it, others would not...just like humans in general /smiles. Again, the community you are referring to is indeed that gangster-like community but there are others there, free-thinking humans who refuse to conform on the basis of objectivity and open-minded thinking.

I do not follow science or something else blindly...I am aware of the discrepancies and the weaknesses of it, there are plenty. It is after all, only humans who are the bearers of those standards as well, inherently containing all the weaknesses, but also strengths, that any other human endeavour consists of. So many horrific interests are lurking behind many of them too...money contaminates everything as it has been made to become the main means by which things are made possible to do...and that colours the objectivity and any honest search for truth immediately. So many financial companies own their own “scientists who inevitably speak positively about their employers products. Backed by science is only a slogan, not a fact.

Hence, we need to read and research things ourselves thoroughly before we say or do things...but also, NOT do the opposite and disbelieve everything. After all, the ones in power do not fight the truth from coming out by denying it...they tend to add many half-baked truths and lies, to add to the confusion of things...just like with conspiracy theories. One of them might be true...but they do not fight that by denying it, they just add more conspiracy theories, one more ridiculous than the other, so that, when the ridiculous ones are shown to be false, people start disbelieving all of them...including the one that is actually true.../smiles.

The added problem is that, the education we are provided with, is from the same people who are behind many of the scientists...and when that happens (as it has) there is suddenly only one view...even though it has different colours and also, we are not taught to see properly...we are no longer learning freely and truly...we are being conformed and moulded into a suitable shape...

Many thanks to you for posting your thoughts...they are of greater benefit to me than perhaps anything of mine has been to you.

[ravenboy (deleted)]

`What I wanted people who have read this to understand however...was that my original posting is about the unity of humanity...it isnt a matter of white vs black, red vs yellow or brown vs green or whatever...it is more or less a matter of those who control and those who are controlled...and the controlled, of which most of us belong to, are controlled through prejudices (our own), conflict and fear. Nothing new there, but the insights and revelations as to the structure of what is behind everything is dawning more and more. We need to work together to achieve harmony...it is our negative beliefs of our differences and the fear that is spawned from that, that make this endeavour impossible. It is only by realising how close we are to each other that we can actually solve these issues...mother earth is one...all things on this planet are related...why do some people refuse to see that or even acknowledge it? And how come they still hold to their prejudices about others?

Our prejudice and hatred keeps us apart...some work for that line of thinking, the prejudice and hatred part, ruled by fear deep down...others work for the line of inaction and non-belief...resigned and cynical about everything...these are the ones who know the price of everything but the value of nothing...and then there are others who are struggling no matter what...and of those some do it out of love...for all creation, irregardless of colour, creed, nationality and culture.

Dont get me wrong, there ARE differences...but these should be celebrated and accepted...accept that we are all free to choose whatever we want to believe and do in our own lives. As long as it contributes positively to the whole...which there would sometimes also be disagreements about, no doubt, but by not putting ourselves first, we may actually be able to find a positive solution...and a good path. It is how we deal with those issues when they occur, that will decide the outcome ultimately. So far we are not doing a great job...we are sliding ever downwards...not going upwards...and that has been the trend for a long time...perhaps almost the entire human history.

But there have also been great instances of human compassion and wise judgement throughout time. There is a lot of wisdom of this nature in Native culture and values for instance (and many other cultures)...but even there, there were and still are some critical things of course, theyre human too obviously and no greater or better than any others. And the reality of Natives is far removed from the romanticized views about them, often created by others...from the outside. Theyre not the only ones this has happened to either though. Our modern times are so affected by the Hollywood-ization of subjects and whole people (and in times before Hollywood). There are far better sources of knowledge than that...and as long as we can make that distinction and be aware of it, therein lies one step in the right direction...

It is said that times change...but we have to realise that one person can change time as well...in a positive direction. In fact, it is part and parcel of our existence (of course you are free to disagree with this...that is the challenge, accepting opposing views and still living in harmony). If we can but contribute in our own lifetime to affecting the web of life positively...then the job is done...it is sometimes simple, and in some instances incredibly difficult. But if you lose your hope...and let cynicism and apathy rule...then those who want to affect the web of life negatively, will win...and the ones who want to affect it positively will lose. Such is the nature of the position of cynicism, apathy, resigned acceptance and inaction. It helps the negative, not the positive and is a losing position...something that perhaps some communities have suffered from for far too long...with visible negative results. From such a stance, no victories are gained.

Well met everyone...and once again, thank you for your postings.

/RAVEN....hands trubblemaka some retina-strengthening and x-ray vision glasses.../smiles

[rblyl (deleted)]

`I enjoy some diversity between people and happy we are not all the same.

[trubblemaka (deleted)]

`action...thats what i do and thats what we need.

[ravenboy (deleted)]

trubblemaka wrote: `action...thats what i do and thats what we need.



More power to you...

[fullmetal (deleted)]

`this was alot to read deffinately, but here in all these people lie the keys. We each bring something to the world be it good or not.
I have read about how we all desended from africa and aisa and to me it makes sense.as for dna if we are only just learnign how to understand all that our genetic code tells us than how can one say no absolutely not, i didnt come from anywhere but here.
it cant be. we like everythnig evolve. when i was little tourrets and ADHD was unheard of! now, we have these, as well as Autism caused by vaccines and other diseases.products of drug companies? evolution? our children are the new. Indigo and Crystal children. believe or deny a new world is evolving.
I am a kind soul and respect everyones freedom to their own opinions. I too wanted ot work with animals raven but even at the age of 16 when i was a trainer at a stable i was sickened by all these peope who came to me, "oh my horse is terrible he wont do what i want him to,blah blah! i got tired of training humans.it was never the horse! even then I saw that to those people it was just a possesion a status symbol.they didnt want to hear it was them they couldnt believe it was their fault if their horse was afraid or balked or bucked or flipped out. we must take the blame for our mistakes,be it with a horse a dog our neighbor our planet. anyone who has ever really looked into another crestures eyes,i mean really looked,really understood what they saw there could never blame them. there is no "easy"death injected or otherwise.i have seen too often the struggle to stay in the body, the fear and pain of dieing,both in humans and animals,the dessision to "putdown" another creature is beyond me now. i had to do this,for my own horse,and have regretted it beyond measure.i was assured by everyone it was painless they just go to sleep. bullcrap! they are not dumb animals they are much more intune than most of us are. i know he felt it, he faught it the whole way and I am the one who must live with it now.
I hear what you are saying raven, we have alot in common.
I think to change the world we must first change ourselves,then let others follow if they will set an example to others,let them see that change is good not a thing to fear.

[ravenboy (deleted)]

I couldn't agree more with everything that you've said...

Thank you for commenting and thank you for the insights...also feels good to know that I am not alone in feeling this way about animals among other things...thank you again...