Native American Passions Forum

loveternal

What are Native beliefs concerning reincarnation and does reincarnation really matter?

chosnazzy

Before I say anything on this, I would like to first make a statement. In the ancient Lakota way, we are not a dogmatic people. There will always be exceptions to things. And there will be more than one way to perceive and comprehend something.

For example, let us say that two men each do a Hanbleciya (Crying For A Vision) Ceremony. They both do this at the same time, but at two locations hundreds of miles apart from each other. They do not know each other, having never met in person. And in their visions, they see the same objects. Are they receiving the same vision?

No. They are not. They might see the same objects, but its what the objects do that defines their visions. So these objects will mean something different to each man. This is an example of what I mean, when I say we are not dogmatic in our beliefs. Even in our language, there are exceptions to certain grammatical rules.

Also, one Lakota tiospaye (extended family) might have a certain belief that works for them, but it will be different for a different tiospaye.

Today, because of Christianization on the reservations, a lot of Natives tend to be dogmatic. And they end up saying the way their family does something is the correct way and everyone else is doing it wrong. That is dogma and not the ancient Lakota way.

In the Lakota way, there will always be more than one way to perceive something. What I write in these forums is what I have been taught. But another Lakota group might perceive the same topic in another way. And that is totally ok. There is no one absolute way in the Lakota belief system. We can all learn something from each perspective.

So with that being said....

chosnazzy

Lakota Star Knowledge teaches about the journey of the soul. It teaches that the soul has several parts. When a woman conceives, Mother Earth gives an earth soul-piece to the unborn child. In this way, its emotional, mental and physical development are nurtured, along with the help of its mother.

Meanwhile, a soul is waiting in the location inside a certain Lakota star constellation and it chooses its mother. When the child is born and is about to take its first breath, the soul travels from that star constellation towards the baby. Then as the baby takes his or her first breath, this soul enters the baby through its crown. And the soul joins with the earth soul piece.

When this person dies, the earth soul-piece returns to the earth. And the soul returns to that same star constellation it came from. Inside that constellation, there is a path that leads to the center of the universe. And the soul journeys on that path until it meets a sacred being. This is not god. This is someone else.

This sacred being examines the soul's development. If it is complete, the soul continues on. But it does not go to any kind of heaven. Lakota Star Knowledge teaches it is something completely different.

If the soul's development is not complete, then it must journey back to that same star constellation from which it came. And when it arrives back inside that constellation, it again chooses an unborn child to enter, when that baby is born.

This cycle continues like this over and over until the soul's development is complete.

The way the soul develops depends on how a person lives his or her life, and that he or she is also emotionally healthy, learning from life's difficulties to fully comprehend and enjoy blessings, and living a healthy life, spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically. This means that skin color, culture and language are not the focus, as there are good and bad people in every group of people and each gender, as well. So you do the best you can with what you are and with what you have, including your talents.

When you use your talents in a healthy way, you are sending out good medicine to bless others, and that good medicine will return to you four times as strong. Likewise, if you use them in unhealthy ways, that is spreading bad medicine to others, and that bad medicine will return to you four times as strong, as well. This is part of what we call the Natural Law of Generosity.

One of the sacred beings in Lakota Star Knowledge stories is named Wakanka. This is a woman who can see into the future. But what she teaches us is that the future is always changing because it is based on the combined thought patterns of the present moment. This means that if you could see your future and you do not like what you see, you can alter it by altering your thought patterns in the here and now.

Wakanka teaches that the present moment is the most important moment. And this also means that the current lifetime is the most important one. Whatever you were in the past is finished business. So when someone says they were a Lakota in a past life, but they are white European today, and then he tries to "become" Lakota by giving himself an "indian" name and attempts to perform Lakota ceremonies, he is totally betraying himself because before he was born, he chose his mother for this lifetime. And souls do not make mistakes.

Usually people who do this have very low self-esteem and therefore, they desire to be something they fantasize about because doing so keeps them away from themselves. They feel ashamed of themselves for whatever reason, and living like this also feeds their emotional denials. That is unhealthiness, as it does not allow emotional development to occur. When you cannot develop emotionally, then you cannot develop spiritually, either.

Wakanka also teaches that the future is not written in stone, and that dogma is man's attempt to control others based on fear of what he does not and cannot comprehend. As stated previously, when a Lakota tells others that their ways are wrong, he is dogmatic and is not speaking from the ancient Lakota perspective.

What I wrote here is very basic. I left out some details on purpose, because those details are considered sacred and not for public forums such as this.

Again, in the Lakota way, there will always be more than one way to look at something. What I wrote is just one way, and it was the way I was taught by a Lakota Holy Woman. Ho hecetu welo, Mitakuyepi!

loveternal

WOW! I really like this Thank you for sharing, Chosnazzy!

When you think about it, it is really remarkable when two people meet, and feel something they do not understand. And that what could be happening is that they are really finding each other again. That is so beautiful!

But yes, like what you said, what matters more is what they do in the here and now, regardless if they knew each other from a past lifetime or not.

lily4567

`you mean Chosnazzy that europeans posing for Indians here in Europe are unhealthy? What do you think about them??

chosnazzy

In Germany, a lot of these people who dress up like Natives are called Hobbyists or Indianists. And most of these Hobbyists do not care about the real Natives of today. They think that since Natives live on reservations and live mostly in the modern world, that they are not real Natives anymore. And they also think they (the Hobbyists) are the real natives of today. A lot of them are very arrogant and they think they know more about being Native than we do.

I was invited by a Hobbyist to a powwow in the east part of Berlin several years ago. And the German guy who contacted me said he was one of the organizers of that powwow. He said that he would be looking out for me and that he wanted to visit with me. So I said ok. And this was the first German powwow I attended. I walked in with some friends of mine and I found him, and he saw me. So I went up to him to shake his hand. And he walked away. I followed him around for several minutes, but he kept walking away from me. So I didn't know what to think. He invited me, he recognized me, I made eye contact with him, and every time I went towards him, he would walk away.

So I just thought "whatever". As my friends and I we were walking around, the dancers were really glaring at me. But it was not a nice stare. It seemed like they did not want me there at all. I told this one young man that he was a good grass dancer and very arrogantly he said, "well of course!" Then he turned away.

At a REAL powwow, most dancers have been taught that they are not dancing for themselves, but that they are dancing for the people to make them feel good, to give them good medicine. And the same is true for the singers, that they are singing for the people and not to show off how good they are. So they are humble. When you are a singer or a dancer and someone says you are good at what you do, you go to them and shake their hands and thank them. But most of these hobbyists are not like that at all, they are arrogant and extremely vain. I should interject that there are some respectful Germans among the Hobbyists, but that number is incredibly small. Most are arrogant and vain.

Then I saw them do that blanket dance where they ask for donations to help someone who is sick. Four dancers are chosen to carry this blanket around in a circle inside the dance area. And then people from the audience may walk up to the blanket and throw any money that they can spare into the center of the blanket. At the end of the song, whatever money is in the blanket is given to the sick person. When you do that, those who are carrying that blanket are only supposed to stay in the powwow circle. But these hobbyists went out into the lobby of the building. They went up to the stands on the second level. They went outside the building. If they did that on the rez, they would be stopped immediately. That is really disrespectful to leave the powwow circle like that.

So that's when I realized that these hobbyists do not really care about our traditions. They only care about the look and then they use their own ideas, what they think should be native ideas. That is racism, as well as ethnocentrism. I was there for about an hour, until I became so disgusted at everything I saw that I just decided to leave.

The night, I wrote a post in that powwow-kalendar.de website about my experience. After that, I received over 50 death threats from these hobbyists, and they say they are the "real" natives of today. They act more like ISIS than anything else.

However, there were five women from Berlin who agreed with me, and these five women were not hobbyists. These five women felt these hobbyists were stealing a culture that did not belong to them. Its ok to admire a culture and learn about it. But when you try to be that culture and then say the people who really are from that culture are not real. That is ridiculous. That left a really bad taste in my mouth concerning German powwows.

I grew up on the rez all my life, until I moved to Berlin, Germany. And when I hear these hobbyists singing Native and dancing Native, I feel something is missing. Its like they do not have the soul of it. So their singing and dancing does not impress me at all. And the ones who try to speak Lakota speak it wrong, they pronounce words wrong, and its almost funny when I hear them speak or sing in Lakota.

When you look at recent Native history, Natives have survived a lot of bad experiences from forced Christianization, boarding schools, among others. And yet we still survived it all. And that survival spirit is what you hear and feel when a real Native sings and dances. But these hobbyists do not have that. Instead, they are arrogant and they do what they do for themselves selfishly. They might have the look, but they do not have that that survival spirit that we have.

This German powwow was the absolute worst powwow I ever went to in my life. I felt violated, as I was watching these hobbyists "play" Indian.

As I stated previously, its ok to admire a culture and learn about it. And its even ok to learn its language, as long as you speak it from that culture's perspective and not your own. But when you try to be that culture and then say the people who really are from that culture are not real, then that is ridiculous, disrespectful, stupid, and so forth. LOL!

In another experience, I watched a TV interview with a white German hobbyist being interviewed on one of the national German TV networks. And he was really into the Crow Indian culture. And in this interview he said that he spoke the Crow language better than any of the Crow Indians of today. He said that someday in the future, the Crow tribe should send their people to him to learn their language and culture. THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS THINGS I EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE! LOL!

That would be like me saying that all Jews are believing incorrectly concerning the Law of Moses. But I know the correct version, so all Jews must come to me to learn the real version or they would not be able to get into Heaven. I would be a total idiot to say something like that LOL!!

So to answer your question, yes the disrespectful Hobbyists are totally unhealthy.

And I want to state this just one more time: It's ok to admire a culture and learn about it. And its even ok to learn its language, as long as you speak it from that culture's perspective and not your own. But when you try to be that culture and then say the people who really are from that culture are not real, then that is not ok.

loveternal

chosnazzy wrote: ... It's ok to admire a culture and learn about it. And its even ok to learn its language, as long as you speak it from that culture's perspective and not your own. But when you try to be that culture and then say the people who really are from that culture are not real, then that is not ok.
Yes, I agree with this. And this is how I am. I am not a wannabee. I just really have a high respect for Lakota spirituality and I like many of its beliefs. But I am not trying to be anything but me

And what Chosnazzy says is true. There are some nice people in Germany, including myself , who do admire Lakota culture and are respectful about it. But there are many, many more who go overboard about it to the point that they think they are the real Natives. They are very close-minded, arrogant people. And they think that if you are not wearing feathers, leathers, and warpaint on your face, then you are not a real Native. The "most" of these hobbyists are total idiots!

loveternal

In Germany, there was an author named Kary May, who wrote about Natives. Karl May was thrown in prison several times because he conned people out of their money. And he never met any Natives and he never even traveled to America. Everything in his books is lies. And from his writing was created stereotypes of Natives. There were some very horrible movies made based on these writings, too.

Almost every child in Germany reads these books, and they think this books is telling the truths about Natives. They want to be like the main character of this books, named Winnetou. In the movies, they used a French man to portray the Winnetou character.

When a real Native comes to Germany, and he is not like Winnetou, then many of these Germans will say "Oh he is not like Winnetou so he is not a real Indian". Its so stupid. So this is where the interest in Natives begins with Germans, from these Winnetou books that they read as children.

Then, when they become adults, they go into the forests and play "Indian" for their holiday time. Its so stupid what they do. Unfortunately, some of them are very good with their beadworks, as they have studied beadworks from old photos in books from America. So they can look very authentic, as long as you do not look at the color of their skin. But it is silly to see the ones with blond hair dressed up like this. It is just not right. So I can understand how Chosnazzy felt violated at the powwow he attended.

And just think, all of this nonsense began from these books of lies written by a German con man, who was in prison more than once, and had never ever visited America. And they are only interested in the 1800s Wild West image of Northern Plains Native people.

As a result, when south american natives learn of this, they pretend to be North American Natives. I find that very peculiar, when these south american natives living in Europe exploit North American Natives. They also dress up like 1800s Wild West North American Plains Natives, and play their pan pipe flutes in the streets. They dance like the actors in the Winnetou movies, and they walk right up to the people in the street and almost forcibly try to get them to give them money, in a very bothersome way. It is so disrespectful what they do. And I do not like that, either.

chosnazzy

loveternal wrote: I find that very peculiar, when these south american natives living in Europe exploit North American Natives. They also dress up like 1800s Wild West North American Plains Natives, and play their pan pipe flutes in the streets. They dance like the actors in the Winnetou movies, and they walk right up to the people in the street and almost forcibly try to get them to give them money, in a very bothersome way. It is so disrespectful what they do. And I do not like that, either.
Heck that's right! One time, I saw a south American native dressed up in a really goofy looking powwow regalia. And he was doing this silly dance, like in the Winnetou movies. And there was a Spanish looking guy standing there selling CDs of the music that this south american native guy was dancing to. And it was panpipe new age sounding music.

I asked to look at the CD, and there were several song titles with the words "Wakan Tanka" on it. This means "The Great Mystery" in the Lakota language. So I asked this Spanish guy in German, what tribe the "indian" was from. And he said "Indian." He obviously didn't understand me. So I asked him in English, and he shook his head all confused. The song list was filled with Lakota titles, but this guy didn't know what tribe this "indian" was from LOL!!

And the song list had 10 songs on it. About 5 of the songs had the words "Wakan Tanka" in it, but they were spelled differently each time. One was spelled "Wakan Tanka". Another was spelled "Wakan Tanaka". Another was spelled "Wakhan Thanka". And so on and so on.

After the "indian" was done dancing, I walked up to him and he got scared and all shaky. I said to him in Lakota, "Hau, tanhansi! Lila tanyan ataciyelo! Ca tuktetanhan yahi hwo?" And he was about ready to defecate in his regalia. He was all nervous now.

What I said is a very standard way in Lakota country of how two men will greet each other in Lakota, when they do not know each other. In Lakota, you always greet people as a relative. So you have to know who you are related to. And if the other person is not a relative, you use the cousin terms, if he is the same generation as you. And this "indian" was the same generation as me.

So I said to him, "Hello cousin! I am happy to meet you! So where are you from?" That is so BASIC BASIC Lakota! When you are learning to speak the Lakota language, this is one of the first greetings you learn.

And he was clueless and shaking, especially since I was bigger than him. Usually these south american indins are litty bitty guys

So I spoke to him in German, since we are in Germany. And he got really nervous, as he could not speak German at all. And the Spanish guy started packing up their stuff and they left immediately. The people that were there were really surprised. One German guy told me that he thought those two were rude to me. Well, they were. I was trying to make contact with them in German, English and Lakota languages and they said nothing to me.

And to see me, a REAL North American Native trying to befriend a south american native, and then seeing the south american native say nothing and look away and walk away from me... well that was not very "Native" of him to act like that

A lot of these south american natives are not really playing their instruments in the streets when they perform. They are mimicking on their flutes and lip syncing to the singing. And the music is not even from them. They download music from other South American Native musicians who are living in South America. And then they burn this downloaded music onto blank CDs and do their own artworks, and sell these CDs, as if it was their own music. So they are stealing from their own people who are living in South America.

The original song titles are in their own South American languages, but when they repackage what they downloaded, the use Lakota words instead for the song titles.

And in the Lakota language there are several different orthographies in use. But these south american natives do not know this. So they just copy and paste whatever they find from the internet. This is why the song titles on that CD I was looking at had 5 different spellings of the words "Wakan Tanka" LOL! These south american natives here in Europe are really scamming the people and exploiting North American Native culture.

The way I found out about this, was that a woman from Denmark contacted me. And she told me that she was living with one of these guys, until she learned what he was doing on the computer. When they first met, he told her he was Lakota. And she didn't know anything about Lakota people so she believed him. But when she found he really wasn't and that he was exploiting Lakota spirituality, she kicked him out. And then she told me about how they download real South American music and repackage it as their own with Lakota titles. And people here do not know the difference, so they buy it. I don't like this, either.

Today, this Danish woman is living in South Dakota with a REAL Lakota. LOL!! So at least there was a happy end to her story :)

chosnazzy

loveternal wrote: ... these south american natives living in Europe exploit North American Natives. They also dress up like 1800s Wild West North American Plains Natives, and play their pan pipe flutes in the streets. They dance like the actors in the Winnetou movies, and they walk right up to the people in the street and almost forcibly try to get them to give them money, in a very bothersome way. It is so disrespectful what they do. And I do not like that, either.
And yes, when a group of them is performing in the streets, they go among the crowd and practically try to force money from the people. It's like "extreme" begging or something. It's so disgusting to see that kind of activity! And they do all this nonsense, while pretending to be North American Plains Natives.

As beautiful as that "El Condor Pasa" song is, it just doesn't look right when you see a North American Plains looking Native, all dressed up in a Northern Plains style headdress or powwow regalia, while mimicking playing a panpipe flute to that song.

But a lot of non-Natives, who don't know any better, see that and think, "Oh how nice! Lets give them some coins!" Good grief!

loveternal

`Mr. Chosnazzy, you live a very interesting life and have very interesting adventures LOL!! But I totally agree with what you are saying.

When something interests me, I take the time to research it so that what I will learn will be genuine. And that is what I did when I first saw these south american natives doing this in Germany.

And when I first saw them performing in the streets, I thought to myself, "Hey, the Lakota people in the Dances With Wolves movie did not play panpipe flutes! Something fishy is going on with these street performers!" LOL!!

loveternal

Well, the posts went a little bit off topic so I am going to try and steer it back on track

Chosnazzy, based on everything you wrote so far on this, does a "god" fit into this belief system? That is something I am really curious about. I am not against any religions, but I do not believe in a god or bible or anything like that. So I am really curious what you have to say about that. And of course, I know that Lakota belief is not dogmatic, as you stated earlier. So I am aware that some Lakota people will think differently on this matter. However, I would like for you to explain how you view it

chosnazzy

I want to reiterate what you said because it is crucially important to understand that Lakota belief is not dogmatic. There will be differences in beliefs, versions of stories and certaion words in the Lakota language. But this is not a problem. These differences are part of what comprises the identity of that person and which tiospaye (extended family) he/she comes from. For example, when someone calls his grandfather "kaka", you know he is most likely an Oglala Lakota. And when another person calls her grandfather "lala", that she is mostly likely Itazipco Lakota or from another Lakota group.

The problem arises when someone gets dogmatic and starts putting down anything that he disagrees with. And usually when someone gets dogmatic, most likely it is because he is chistian or catholic influenced, and may not even realize it because it is all he knows.

In the Lakota language, there is something called "Wakan Tanka". Lots of people translate this as the "Great Mystery", which is probably the most accurate translation. Others will translate it as the "Great Spirit", but this is christian/catholic-influenced because it is saying it is a "one god" concept.

In the tiospaye I am from, I was taught that "Wakan Tanka" is an organization of several beings. And there is more than one organization with that same name. These organizations are in different groups because each group works in a different way. And neither group is better or lesser than the other. They just work in different ways, nothing more.

When you look at each word, "wakan" means "something more than sacred that has energy/motion". And "tanka" means "big". So now maybe you can see better why I said that the "Great Mystery" is a good translation of "Wakan Tanka".

The beings in these Wakan Tanka groups are males, females, androgynous, hermaphroditic, and some are animals and plants. In Lakota, we view each species as a "nation", which in the Lakota language means "oyate". Even species of plants are seen as "nations", who have their own way of communication, as well.

These Wakan Tanka organizations deal with our soul developments. And so we have songs that address them. We call the males in these groups "Tunkasila", which means "grandfather". And we call the females in these groups "Unci", which means "grandmother". For example, the Earth is considered female and is a member of one of these Wakan Tanka organizations. So she is addressed as "Unci Maka". "Maka" is the earth. And as I said earlier, "Unci" is "Grandmother". And of course, we also call our human grandfathers and grandmothers using these same terms.

When a soul completes it's development, it enters another type of existence. But this is not heaven. It's something completely different and is something amazing, but that is considered sacred knowledge, so I am not going to write about that in any public forum. However, to figure it out, you just have to look at the Lakota Star Knowledge version of the creation of the universe.

When all souls have completed their developments, all the Wakan Tanka groups also evolve into something else. But again this is sacred knowledge so I am not going to write about that here. In the Lakota Star Knowledge stories, there is nothing like a heaven or a hell. And likewise, there is nothing like a "one god"-concept and nothing "satanic", either. This also means there is no heaven or hell. Instead, it is something completely different. It is something that makes more sense than what christianity and catholicism preaches.

Again, I want to state that this is just one version of the soul development process in the Lakota Star Knowledge belief system. Another tiospaye might have a variation of this same thing, and that is ok. There is nothing wrong with that, because we are not "dogmatic". Each tiospaye's variation is a part of what comprises that tiospaye's identity.

And there are some Lakota who will totally disagree with me, and usually it's because they are dogmatic, as they are christian/catholic-influenced. But that does not bother me. I choose to respect what others believe. Just because I may disagree with someone does not make them wrong. And I expect that same treatment from others, as well. However, it's the dogmatic Lakota people who will put me down for what I have just stated. But that is their problem, and not mine because I am not dogmatic.

loveternal

Well, what you wrote makes a lot of sense to me. I love it

And what I believe is that what is more important is what is going on in life right now. And this is why I like what you said earlier about this lifetime being the most important. We have the power to change our lives for the better, and doing so influences those around us in a good way, too.

chosnazzy

EXACTLY! You hit the nail right between the eyes! It's not important whether what I said is true or not. What IS important is how we live our lives NOW, in the here and NOW. Because how we live our lives is what influences our futures, and it influences each other, because we are connected to all life, which includes all people, animals, plants, the earth, water, the air, fire, everything. What IS important is how our thoughts are in the present moment, and this is why past lives are not important, either. This is why I don't waste time arguing with others who may disagree with me.

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