ravenboy
(deleted)
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Indeed, it never was the only government/s to oppress others, it is just one among many. The history of humanity is full of that, from the past to today. In fact, the history of Europe is full of various atrocities against humanity, far more than the American, although, what happened to the Natives there is also the result of European expansion. Europe carries the heaviest burden as far as oppression against “other peoples is concerned, no one is debating that, au contraire, I would be the first one to say this.
This doesnt of course, relieve other governments from criticism, least of all the American government which now, especially since the second world war, has played the biggest role in the policies of the world. And much of where other countries are today is either wholly or at least partly, due to these policies.
"There are a lot of “little countries on the other side of the planet that hates America." And yet, in order not to stereotype, something anyone who speaks of having been oppressed, whether self or their ancestry, should know better than to do; we need to remember that no entire country hates another one. The majority of people all over the world are usually concerned about the same things. Basic rights, enough food on the table, some decent occupation or work, a roof over the head and closeness to ones family.
However, if we are to address the issue of dislike for US, which is more accurately described as dislike of US policies, there is actually a very valid reason for that. But you probably need to ask yourself why that may be. Then again, perhaps you dont want to and wish to form your own opinions about that. I however, have asked people on various continents personally. It was rather enlightening and I could not fault them for feeling the way they did unfortunately. Their reasons were too strong. But we dont have to go to places personally of course to find out the truth. Books, internet and the television works wonderfully in this case.
If you prefer to listen to an American I might make a suggestion for you to read the book Killing hope written by William Blum. It should hopefully be somewhat of an eye-opener. Also, if you do look at US foreign aid, or by all means, European aid across a few decades you might find some interesting figures depending on whether you get to a source which really includes everything and not some biased source that belongs to these various governments. Independent sources in other words, who are not attached to any government or organisation. There is more money going from third world countries to industrial countries than the other way around. Not money as in notes and coins, but through debt, valuable commodities and natural resources that are all heading towards industrial countries. In fact, “for every $1 in aid a developing country receives, over $25 is spent on debt repayment. This trend isnt getting any better, in fact it is getting worse. Just consider that “in 1960, the 20% of the worlds people in the richest countries had 30 times the income of the poorest 20%  in 1997, 74 times as much. It isnt any advanced algebra this, its basic maths. How do you think this division of resources came to be? How do you think that the richer countries of today became rich?
The model of the plantation house works pretty effectively to give you an image of the situation in the world the way it has been for quite a while now. It used to be that if you were a slave working out in the fields, with the hardest and most menial jobs, you were at the bottom of the ladder/house. As you got closer to the house, the better it was for you. Of course, the best situation was for the plantation owner who lived in the house and actually owned the place.
Now imagine the world as a pyramid, because it actually looks like this. At the top, where there is least space, you have the most powerful industrialised countries and as you get towards the base of the pyramid, you have the poorer countries squabbling for the few resources left for them to share. Some 80 % of the world lives on less than $10 a day and “a mere 12 percent of the worlds population uses 85 percent of its water, and these 12 percent do not live in the Third World. Do you still question why they hate us? Im surprised they havent already arisen and gotten rid of all of us because we are oppressing them just by living our lifestyles. I guess they are too malnourished to do anything anyway...
Some more data maybe.
In 2005, the wealthiest 20% of the world accounted for 76.6% of total private consumption. The poorest fifth just 1.5%
The GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the 41 Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (567 million people) is less than the wealth of the worlds 7 richest people combined.
This isnt where the story ends however, the countries at the bottom, theyre actually the ones making the clothing, shoes, furniture and other things for the ones at the top. When British companies, or indeed Nike or some other companies, get their products made by some poor Philippines, Indian or Bangladeshi for hardly enough to eat for one day, along with work hours that many of us would choke at hearing mentioned; then maybe you get the picture as to the dislike. But maybe I need to add the --- tourism as well. How do you think many Thai people picture British males? Especially after seeing many of them coming to use and abuse the children in their countries?? And its not just British males...some of them are, dare I say it, Americans.
Does that offend you? It should! But not because you happen to be an American. It should offend you because you are a human being. Because each individual stands for their own choices. It is unfortunate that so many associate the actions of some as their own, just because you happen to share nationality or something else. See the dangers of such associations? Because it makes some people accept quite atrocious behaviour from others merely on the basis of them sharing nationality. When the war in former Yugoslavia broke out, some Russians were supporting the killings and mass graves of Bosnians on account of seeing the Serbs, who were committing these acts, as being of the same people sharing their Christian values even though there was nothing Christian about the acts committed.
What do you think the American government does? When it wants to attack another country for “oily reasons, it appeals to the American people, in order to win support for their actions. Of course, this has to be an emotionally stirring message...theyd never be saying that they wanted the oil or more money or needed to put in another government in that country that will allow their businesses free enterprise and stealing of the resources of that country. Oh no, the motivations are far more self-justified and righteous sounding.
Does this not sound familiar...especially if you claim Native belonging? Land anyone? Reservations anyone? Youre are given one broken promise after another until there is a speck of impoverished land left to live on...and then even that is used as a landfill...poisoning the water so that the children who grow there...get terminally ill. Yeah, it does sound quite familiar because, lo and behold, it has happened in other countries too. You see, it got more and more efficient until it started happening on a world wide scale...
If you look at the total expenditure of various countries, youll find that, US for instance, represents about 4-5 % of the world population and yet it uses up 25% of its resources. Now these are not used up by poor people on reservations or people living in ghettos; nor are many people who are using these resources up meaning to harm the rest of the world, or themselves, intentionally. Awareness anyone? Just realising what we are all doing to the planet and maybe change our ways? Native elders observed and spoke of this 150 years ago, trying to enlighten and warn the people of those days from the dangers...which have now become an even more cemented reality. I'm not even a native, but I have the sense to listen to the wise things stated by their elders, just like I would listen to anyone who said something wise, be they Native or Australian Aborigine, a child, a cat or even a businessman...wisdom does not have a nationality, wisdom does not belong to a country or a people.
Just consider this...in UK, the average person uses more than 50 litres of water a day, flushing toilets etc. Average daily water usage is about 150 litres...but who tops the list? Well, the highest average water use in the world is in the US, at 600 litres per day. Again, that doesnt represent the poor of America, who are suffering just as much as many people in third world countries. I know, Ive been in both places to see it.
When you think that less than one per cent of what the world spent every year on weapons was needed to put EVERY child (all over, including American children) into school by the year 2000 and yet it didnt happen...what are world leaders doing? Including the major player US of A. Oh, they are busy conducting wars...bombing some of those countries who are at the bottom of the pyramid. And then we ask ourselves why we are so hated...is that a joke? Are you so far buried in your own delusions that you cannot actually comprehend this?
I guess its over-defensiveness based on an inability to deal with what the government of ones own country is doing...just because one has invested ENOUGH of ones personal values and personal beliefs into that government and learned to associate it with ones own identity. It is just like believeing that X American person = American flag = American government. This is not an equation that is sensible to apply to oneself. People have been made to think that being patriotic and nationalistic is the same as supporting ones government no matter what. If one doesnt, one is made to feel like a traitor...even though by being patriotic to your country one can sometimes actually end up becoming a traitor to the planet...go figure. Whats more important though?
And so, if something critical is stated about one's country, one feels highly offended, personally attacked in fact. The strange thing is that by feeling that way, youre actually associating yourself with some quite atrocious acts on the part of a government...not an association worthy of the black marks on your conscience that you will find difficult to deal with...unless you bury yourself in delusions about your nation's grandeur...
The way out of such a situation can be found if you understand that we are truly all only responsible for our own actions in this regard. Otherwise you'll be defending some horrific acts that you may not know about, or perhaps choose to ignore on account of not being able to deal with...it could all be lies after all, right? Ask some Americans and they do not want to know about what happened and is still happening to Native Americans. “It never really happened the way they say it did, “Custer was a great hero, and the best one of all, “were all free to pursue the American dream...Native Americans too.
Criticism will come through words that will sometimes be hard to hear, yet they need to be said, whether you find it difficult or problematic to deal with. Personal investment into a nation, its flag and what it is supposed to represent, often used to defend the actions of a government which you may or may not agree with normally, but if anyone else speaks up, it bugs you. That is indeed a problem, a personal one at that, which might perhaps be a good thing to question.
What the US government does, not just within its own borders, but also outside of the same, and what it represents in the eyes of the world is probably not what any decent human being would want to consciously subscribe to. That includes a lot of Americans, some of whom are my friends. The cause many of us are concerned about has nothing to do with what country you belong to, it has everything to do with the future of this planet, irregardless of your creed, nationality, culture or religion. It has everything to do with various politicians in various countries. Do you seriously think that anyone in their right mind actually supports the European parliament or the politicians in Europe as any better than the American government? There is something inherently wrong with most political systems...too much corruption. Just recently in Britain, several members of parliament have had to resign because of having taken advantage of the system and loopholes within the same. It's nothing new really...and happens all over.
What was said above applies to almost all of them equally. But since trubblemaka was speaking of a particular government, my response will be regarding that government. We could have spoken of the Danish or Swedish government, it would be equally interesting to see their record. Did you for instance know that even the Swedish government forced its indigenous population to speak Swedish and would not allow their children in school to speak their own language, even to the point of being escorted when they were to call home on the phone, just to make sure they wouldnt say one word in their own language.
To come back to Native Americans and the US, some of them are known to have fought the past American governments and invaders simply because of seeing how they were treating the black slaves. They saw the signs of what would happen to themselves if these people would come into more power. And what did happen? Centuries of abuse because of these so called civilised people not actually being awake to anything but their greed and delusions about their own grandeur.
The civil rights movement also took place because these people needed awakening..and there are still people who need that. Some comments on any forum or board shows this clearly for instance. But that is a reflection for those who are clear enough of mind and heart, and have the courage to see and acknowledge this very evident truth. Those that do, have more in common with the Natives of old, the ones who are usually quoted in so many Native proverbs today. In this regard, blood ties count for very little it seems...when the ones of the same blood from the past, would not even agree with those of their own blood today...this is becoming more evident with some people sadly. But each person stands for their own words and deeds...and how they affect the web of life, be they of whatever origin. In how you affect the web of life, you are merely alone, not a Native, not a Norwegian, American, Spanish, Asian, Australian or what have you...you are only a human who either contributes in a good way, or in a bad way.
The Natives of the time, who saw the treatment of slaves, made the wise decision to fight these so called civilised oppressors. Unfortunately they lost their rights, their lands and ended up being treated pretty much the same way as the African slaves and are still being so. Still, they made the right decision at the time...they had the clarity of mind and heart to know what was right and to be able to differ between that which is false and that which is true.
You may be sick and tired of Europeans coming in and acting however, but you are misunderstanding me completely. Again, that is your problem but still, I will always explain it at least once, in the hopes that the defensiveness displayed on your part, might be realised to be unnecessary. Either you will realise this, or you will display more of the same. We will have to wait for your replies to find out which it will be...
I would very much not mind speaking of the history of other countries as you might have understood from the above. But nevertheless, what is true, needs to be spoken, irregardless of who it applies to. That is a right that any person of this world has whether you have a problem with that or not. In fact, it does you no service to feel that way, to have a problem with it.
Just read the book and find the facts, because if we speak of today, then we have to look at the most powerful country...or should I say, the most armed country in the world. Before the second world war, it would have been Britain we would have looked at but they do not play as major a part on the world scene today as America does. It is inevitable that in this process of analysis, not only will the present day policies of America be scrutinized, but also its past history, and the dealing with, and treatment of Native Americans is a prominent part of that history.
If we, as humans, cant even accept the truth that is spoken because of our sensitivities about national belonging, then it is no wonder that this world will continue to deteriorate and more people, as well as the ones who already are suffering, will continue to suffer as a consequence. Because, this inability, this closing of our eyes, this intentional blindness, has the unfortunate indirect consequence of perpetuating the poverty and suffering of the people of the world. We have to get over these kinds of sensitivities if we do not wish to harm others AND the web of life indirectly. If we do not, then we also harm our own ancestry, our own past and above all the present and the future, be it Native or anything else.
The struggle is between the oppressed and the oppressor, no matter where on earth, and no matter what government that may or may not be involved in that. A few rule, the many are ruled...these governments are the same in so many ways...and the populations of various countries are bickering among themselves and directly and indirectly making each other suffer, mainly from the angle of industrial countries towards the Third World...and therefore we all remain ruled...
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