Are Native Americans, Asians?

[ravendarque (deleted)]

Asian and Native American Connection

The oldest form of human DNA recovered in North Americaâ€â€Âdated to be around 10,300 years oldâ€â€Âis common in type to that found in Japan and Tibet. Similar DNA has been found in native Americans all the way down the west coast of North and South America.

It had long been thought that the first Americans were hunters who crossed a land bridge across the Bering Strait from Siberia to Alaska about 13,500 years ago and followed an “ice-free corridor southward though glacier-covered North America, presumably chasing mammoths and mastodons as they went. Studies of skull and facial structures indicates these people were closely related to the Jomon period (10,000 and 400 B.C.) people of Japan. The skull and facial structures of the Jomon people are in fact more similar to the skull and facial structures of Americans and Europeans than to mainland Asians.

The latest and most widely accepted theory on the first Americans is that they were fishermen who traveled in small boats along the coasts of eastern Asia and western America, bridging the two continents by island hoping between Siberia and Alaska. Some scientists have theorized they originated from Japan and followed a near continuous belt of kelp forests, rich in fish and other sea creatures, that have existed in coastal waters from Japan to Alaska to southern California and flourished even during the Ice Age.

Backing up this assertion is evidence that the coastline and northeastern Asia and northwestern America was not as inhospitable as previously thought and could have easily supported migrating, seafaring communities. In the 1990s evidence emerged of a community living in shellfish at a site called Monte Verde on an island off the Chilean coast around 14,850 years ago. It is likely these people arrived by boat. The ice-free corridor mentioned above was blocked until 13,000 years ago.


This is an excerpt from a longer piece written by Jeffrey Hays in 2009

[n8tvman]

`bull----, pal. how did they get to the Smokies over 10,000 years ago? white man science doesn't explain away my ancestors, tribe, clan and family to me or any other Indian. "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio."

[emme2009 (deleted)]

`Ravendarque, I went looking for the article you are referencing and with all due respect I think you have misrepresented the intent of that article. That article was discussing the origin of a certain group of Japanese who appeared to be "linked" to Native Americans. It's main thrust was not asserting the origin of Native Americans from Asians. It goes on to make certain wide-arcing assumptions which are basically conjecture (hypotheses) which you have quoted and which cannot be substantiated. For example, please note: it states "similar" DNA was found up and down North America among Natives, not "identical".. in the realm of semantics that is a big deal. In these types of articles, it really is important to not only read HOW things are said, but to make note of what is NOT said (for example, you did not mention that archeology esp in Japan has been plagued by fraud).

I've attached the article I found below:
(removed)


Regardless of the article however, I think we should be careful about distributing articles of "science" based on the flimsiest of facts (if we wish to call them that). If you think about how much we do not know, what we do know is basically zero. 16 skeletons do not really reveal anything except that 16 people died at that point in time.

To me, your posting comes across as being insensitive, altho I'm sure you may not have intended it that way.

Emme

[ravendarque (deleted)]

`No, nothing insensitive intended..more like asking questions...and yes, science has yet to prove many of its theories...however interesting they may be. But I don't think there is any need for hostile or angry responses such as some /smiles.

Ultimately however, I do believe that all humanity is connected and not just through the web of life as something metaphysical..but perhaps something tangible...I don't need science to know that I am deeply connected to not just the rest of humanity, but also all animals...and in more than a passing sense...but something very deep...we're all related...that article however, does speak of other similarities...between asians and natives...heck, if you look at the inuits and some of the japanese and chinese...there's some striking similarities...

..and when it comes to genetics...well, they've already established a clear link between us all... The irony remains that many a human cannot see past their own colour, creed, nationality, group belonging, tribe etc...racism? Prejudice? Hatred? These things die hard unfortunately..and thus humanity is quite the disappointment at times...

The world didnt start out populated with loads of people separated by some great differences...we just dont' remember that far back...and that makes us think that we're somehow different...better...exclusive...whatever... Let's see if future generations can find their way back...and if THEY can accept the very clear bond of humanity...and maybe realise the futility of hate, racism, bigotry and prejudice...when everyone realises they all share pretty much the same ultimate grandma.../smiles. Hope she's not turning in her grave quite as fast as she's had to do watching us messing around...

[emme2009 (deleted)]

`Ravendarque,

Honestly now -- You don't see a difference between expressing your personal thought regarding the bond of humanity and posing the question "Are Native Americans Asians?" There's a big difference to me. You are not even Native (neither am I).

I don't blame the more heated response from someone who is NATIVE AMERICAN. I think your question is out of bounds. If you wish to explore roots you would best research or conjecture about your own, then to pose what I feel is a bold, discourteous question.

Emme

[n8tvman]

`Here is an analogy that may be simple enough for you to grasp, ravendarque (cute name). When I ride my bike cross-country, I can feel the sun on me and the fleeting shade of a cloud. I can smell a river when I ride along side of it and I can feel the temperature changes when I cruise the mountains. I should be tired after a 600 mile ride to visit my homelands, but I have traveled with love and anticipation in my heart; the journey has strengthened my love and made me strong. I have felt the wind on me, the world has had it's way with me. I have made quite sure that my bike is in good working order. I pay attention to it. I care for it, as it will care for me on my journey. My bike and I are one in some beautiful moments and I can meditate on how good it is to just be alive at THIS MOMENT. I can experience the sublime. "The doors of perception are open...," if I may quote another of your distinguished countrymen. White man science: let's take this machine apart. Let's see if we can find this sublime and quantify it. The driving force of this appears to be a crude type of internal combustion engine. Lost some some screws down that drain over there? No big deal. How 'bout these tires? Worn tread, apparently a neglected- so probably abandonded- vehicle. How in the world could any one say that they have experienced anything sublime, or enjoyed the world in it's fullness on with this? It's kinda ugly, too. Do we sit on it? Is it furniture? Well, since we took it apart, let's put it back together and run some metallurgical tests on it. Nothing special. Won't start? Those lost screws couldn't be the cause; they were so small. Well, apparently those Indians are only expounding on and mythologizing something one of them think they saw in a trance...or something. Ravendarque, have you ever seen "Enter The Dragon?" As Bruce Lee told the student, at the beginning: quit looking at the finger, "or you will miss ALL that heavenly glory!" (...and slapped the student upside the back of the head).

[ravendarque (deleted)]

/smiles...indeed. At least now you're conversing properly n8tive (sincere thanks...despite the jibes). Nice example too...sort of. I say 'sort of' because there are more aspects to it than this...and far more complex as human beings or animals (living beings) are in comparison... Also, the old wise examples can, where applicable, be matched with the proof which is now freely available, confirming the old thoughts and wisdoms and lending such old examples even more credibility (and some, not so much credibility...shattered myths maybe? Which is not a convenient truth for many...). Rather than just resting on a bunch of thoughts because it's convenient or for the sake of confirming your own views and staking out and protecting your mental territory... But as I said before, maybe future generations will solve some of these questions and "mysteries"...they'll have to be a lot more objective however than past and present generations /smiles. Thanks for replying though.

As for posing questions that are personal...of course I do, since it's my personal thoughts and wonderings. And by posing them I can hopefully get some interesting answers...to enlighten or befuddle me further.../smiles. Hopefully more of the former and less of the latter.../smiles. And hopefully, less aggressive and defensive ones which sadly, seems to have been the norm on this forum...not sure why but I guess a few centuries of oppression can do that to people...which is however, a sad development for the people who harbour such mentalities themselves. Even though many of the ones who do react in a negative manner, seem to be more of European ancestry than anything else...or "natives" who seem far less native than they used to be...maybe that's some strange influence which has affected their otherwise lovely wisdom and thoughts with some...insular thinking and sad prejudice?

I don't think I have to be native or Asian to pose any of these questions...to me, I could have asked, are Europeans related to Asians (which has a positive answer by the way and which I have done on other forums). And then from there if humanity began in Africa...not based on bones that have been found, but on genetics among other things.

Let me say this though. These things have been asked in the spirit of wondering about a subject, not as some way of offending anyone. If it has, I sincerely apologise as it was never my intention. I think I will take these things somewhere else though /smiles. Anyhow...I appreciate your input...thanks.

[n8tvman]

`You're welcome. Have a nice life.

[aussiekelly1 (deleted)]

`Way to go n8tvman. Raven was a good friend to some of us and now he has left this site!! The 10, 000 year ago immigration has been a part of modern science for 50+ years. I have a book here from the 1960's with the same scientific theory. Although science these days is a lot more accurate with proof, this theory still exists. It is a legitimate topic to discuss. I am world traveled and I married an Indonesian Islander from Lombok. I was attracted to him in the first place, because he looked Native American...and so does half the population there. The whole time i was living there I considered the possible link between Native American and Indonesian, because genetic similarities too uncanny for there not to be some kind of relation. Unlike USA, the genetic strain in Indonesia mostly non-mutated and pure, not so mixed. And it gave a lot more credence to this theory because of simple experience of that culture. So my question here to you would be....where did you come from if not immigrated from Asia before the continents broke apart? Did you come out of the ground or grow on trees? I would really like to know your theories and see your own presentation of scientific proof.

kelly

[n8tvman]

`Perfect. Your barking and squealing would go over real good in Indian country...and I'm sure some of my Red Sisters would be happy to share their opinions with you, regarding their men looking like Indonesians. HA! I cannot speak for all Native people, but I will say that (as a Cherokee warrior) if I ever gave people like you a second thought, I would find you pathetic, arrogant and small-minded. We KNOW where we come from, according to OUR historical and spiritual traditions. Read some books about Native Americans, huh? Good for you. REAL histories are not in books. Oh, by the way...why would you ASSUME that our "genetic strain" is not pure and unmixed? Unbelievable.

[emme2009 (deleted)]

`As an non-Native Kel, I can understand the question. As I said to Raven though, I think sometimes we are a bit "rude" in posing such questions. I can't imagine being at a party with African Americans and a non-African American just blurting out, "So.. do you think you all came from (some other group of people)"... I could fathom someone who is of that ancestry questioning outloud. In NY, I think after posing such a question you might want to duck for cover in some circles.

I don't know many Native Americans I admit. And I am reacting to you solely from an "outsider's" perspective. But let's remember: we are here (I think) to learn about another people's culture, beliefs, etc. And I think this questioning is just wrong. Put the shoe on another foot with a different culture in mind. Would you still be this forthright in questioning? I really don't think so. I'm sorry Raven left but that was his choice.

I think forums are wonderful. But we (non-Natives) should still try to be thoughtful of what we are saying.

My 2 cents, of course.

Em

[aussiekelly1 (deleted)]

`n8tvman: It is actually your obvious agression that originally compelled me to make a response in this topic. Sadly, Raven was one of the sweetest people on this site, with never a bad word to say about anyone.

By the way, I do have a lot of books on Native American lore and history here...i purposely hunt them out and import them, so I just don't get to read white man's academic presentations, but those from native perspective too. I have also lived in other native cultures before, so i don't consider myself small minded in the slightest. All of my children are mixed race.

However my issue here was the way you dealt with the original proposition. You do not walk the path of peace? To abuse and degrade people who were not originally intending to be offensive but rather expressing curiosity...seems to me a little lacking in maturity for your age. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Showing tolerance and teaching a new perspectives to others, would have seemed the wisest and most appropriate way to handle the original proposition of this topic.

[n8tvman]

`NO. There was no expression of curiosity from either of you. You and your pal have the audacity to come onto a Native American website and TELL us who we are and where WE come from? Most Indian people are too polite and indifferent to your all-knowing kind, but I will not tolerate it. "...walk the path of peace"? Are you serious? You can't possibly have written that with a straight face. UGH...me walk-um path of peace, now, wise white woman! HAHA. There are enough "flies" like your kind buzzing this site without me trying to attract more. YES, I am very intolerant of expert white people and their books about Indians, which they use to "educate" us about ourselves. Who reads them to you anyway? Must be some big words in them big ole books. :)

[aussiekelly1 (deleted)]

`Hey I grew up in Papua New Guinea...married both an an Arab and an Indonesian islander...I have LIVED in thatched huts and cooked over fires and shat in holes in the ground for years....so don't call me "white woman" in the generic abusive term!!! I got more native in me than any white person I know. I am not a fly buzzing through, I want a native American husband!!!! And the reason I buy books is because there are no Native Americans in Australia, and I keep coming across too many racist Native Americans on this site to have the opportunity to learn what I wish (my apologies to the few of you who have been very kind).

As you have your email settings blocked to disallow any people from outside of USA contacting you....how about we discuss this like MEN on yahoo? My yahoo messenger ID is aussiekelly7

regards kelly (Celtic name meaning "warrior maid")....and you better believe it!!!

[n8tvman]

`You want to collect another husband. How sweet. Good luck with that. You sound like a real catch.