What is the benefit of heritage...or blood?

[ravenboy (deleted)]

This posting is for those who arent prone to misunderstanding the intentions of the author based on personal sensitivities or over-defensiveness. If you are easily offended then please do not read any of my postings. That is probably the best way of avoiding any meaningless exchanges and postings which are good for no one. Open-mindedness and mutual respect is paramount and this is written with those guiding principles clearly in mind.

Now on to the subject...

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1) What is the benefit of our ancestry, our heritage or indeed our blood and bloodline...if it does not contribute to anything good? If we are not using it to affect this world in a positive way?

Is there any broader significance of it? Does it actually mean anything? Does it have any value of its own? Other than to tell us where and whom we are from. Which is obviously of value in the sense of knowing yourself...for our own personal life...but what else? Because a history on its own is something that everyone has...without it usually going any farther...

2) How can this inform our decisions...our actions...is it even supposed to do this?

3) Does it carry with it any kind of responsibility? Any kind of value other than just...being from something...and belonging to something? Does this belonging have any greater meaning?

4) Is this meaning exclusive? Or inclusive? Is this meaning embracing? Or alienating to others...who are not the same? Is it there to create borders and separation...or is it there to create unity and understanding?

[rblyl (deleted)]

`I am posting cause I am a member here. ..Personally, I would hate to see a world where everyone looks the same and had the same culture, beliefs and so on. If we look at all of humanity as a painting (for example) it is that uniqeness of people that adds the color to the picture..otherwise it is just one blank canvas of sorts. Just because a people gets defensive with on-going scrutiny by people who cant grasp what it is to have a traumatic history dosen't mean they are exclusive..it is not reasonable or realistic for others to just say "get over it"..that feels like a judgement and a negative challenge that puts people on the defensive. ....What benefit is it to the world that we are all the same in beliefs, culture, etc.? It wont stop fighting and all that..it just wont. It dosen't eliminate "evil" to say that we are now all going to think and be the same.

If the Lakota, for example, want to believe that they sprang up with the grass of the Plains and thats thier orgin-who am I to say they did not? They have believed this for a thousand years and a new belief (Science) comes in and says "oh no! WE will tell you your true origin!"..what makes that fact? It is not fact. As Science has already proven on itsself is that its own study results are based heavily on the observer and what they expect, or hope to find.

There will always be differences between peoples (I truly hope)..I dont think that respect for others requires us to be the same, or it isnt true respect. It is easy to love people who are the same..that proves nothing of our character and ability to love. Why does a culture have to be all inclusive? In a way that defeats the culture. But we dont have to kill eachother over it. Just let them be, with respect.

Thats my (humble?) opinion anyway. There are many others.

[zoupi]

rblyl wrote: `
There will always be differences between peoples (I truly hope)..I dont think that respect for others requires us to be the same, or it isnt true respect. It is easy to love people who are the same..that proves nothing of our character and ability to love. Why does a culture have to be all inclusive? In a way that defeats the culture. But we dont have to kill eachother over it. Just let them be, with respect.

Thats my (humble?) opinion anyway. There are many others.



It's often happened to me to say to you that I felt you as a friend without to can really explain but these words are among the best explainations for me to appreciate the good person you are...

Keep the happiness inside your life as you can my dear friend. It's great to meet peoples of your value !

[rblyl (deleted)]

`Thank you my friend!! as you know..I always have aspired to be a buttercup among Roses.. and you are one of the most beautiful roses.

[kaskiyeh (deleted)]

`This is the only time I will respond to your post. First of all this is called Native American Passions key word (Native) this is not Cherokee wannabe passions . We have many blue, eyed, blond people joining this site and they seem to all be of Cherokee decent.They all have a great great grandmother who was a Cherokee princess.
You can wear all the feathers, Indian jewelry (made in China)but it will never make you Native.You can display all the photo's and fake artifacts , but it won't make you Native.
It is not a way of life to me,it is in my blood line it is my birth right. We may all be related, but we are not all the same. So don't try to take away our pride in our Native Culture, cause quite frankly that's all you left us..

We who are truly Native do not need to bang our drum and draw attention to our Native blood.We know what we are.
Reb, zoupi and Trubb you guys are great and I am proud to call you friend..

(disclaimer) All the words above are my own personal thoughts and do not mean to offend anyone....All I have is the right to voice my opinion.. I have spoken, Wahkontah N.W.A.A. , H.B.I.C.

[rblyl (deleted)]

`and the most resilient and beautiful of roses have thorns..admired by many..touched by very few. I am proud to call you friend too.:)

[fullmetal (deleted)]

`hmm.ok well I think for me anyways it gave me answers to areas of my own life that prviousley had none.some people need something to believe in to belong to.some deny the very existance of their own heritage. my ex husband was hispanic,yet his parets were ashamed of that heritage and refused to teach him to speak spanish. did it stop him fom being hispanic? no but it instead it bred a hatred and fear an shame at who he was.
there may be those who come here blue eyes and blond haired, but why judge them for it? maybe they do have relations, maybe they are searching for something they feel inside themelves. my own eyes are as blue as a clear desert sky, my hair dark ,now bleached by the desert sun to aubourn, yet my fathers father was full blooded Cherokee, he was also shot in the back and killed because of it. by those who harbourd hate in their hearts. left out were the people who also have African America or hispanic or welsh or jewish, As well as any other race? Yes even if every single person were all one race there would still be hate,war jealousy,greed to name a few.
peopel as a race are herd animals we seek to belong to a group or cling to some faint trace of lineage because its there that we see things we value in that race, we see similarities in ourselves that we see in them, we have some of the same beliefes . it is the nature of our survival to seek out those we identify with call it instinct or selfpreservation but dont condem, instead feel honoured that someone believes in you or that they look up to you!
if we all stuckk to our own kind and never steped out of that cirlce not only would it becoem boreing but history has shown us that the human race suffers. culture and heritage are what give us roots and history and a placeto identify with wether an individual is proud of it or not.. do we hte a person who wants to live more like a wolf? if he went out and did it he might get sent ot a mental institue, but not hated by the wolf, but what if the wolf was claimed as a brother or the Hawk or eagle? we are all at our very basic, flesh and blood. its our history as a people that help us define and shape us.
I did not come here to be judged for the amount of Cherokee or comachee I have inmy hertage I came to seek friends, and learn and fill the gap in histories my familly couldnt fill. I came in friendship with an open heart and mind,seeking other with like minds and hearts,and gatefull now for haveing met some. glad to hear others voices besides my own. fullmetal.

[born2bemild (deleted)]

`I thought I had some real deep and insightful things to add to this thread, but the more I think about it, the more I think no one really wants one more opinion. But, I can't really help it, I just want to say it anyway.
The only way to survive this lifetime with your sanity intact is to forgive. Forgive the past.
Besides, you know,this what humans do with their power and abilities, subjugate-terrorize-conquer and tyranize...will the next winner be gentle on the losers?
When you look at the big picture-isn't it true that we are all part of a really big tribe of humans? A really dysfunctional asylum of a tribe, but....
I would like to beleive that there is some hope. I would like to beleive that even though some humans are real --- souls and have caused such suffering-other humans don't act like that, and hopefully those people who continue to beleive and live lives that give compassion and healing towards all the cohabitants who share our planet will successfully transmit hope into future generations...we are going to need it.

[johnmarlon (deleted)]

Quote: 1) What is the benefit of our ancestry, our heritage or indeed our blood and bloodline...if it does not contribute to anything good? If we are not using it to affect this world in a positive way?

Is there any broader significance of it? Does it actually mean anything? Does it have any value of its own? Other than to tell us where and whom we are from. Which is obviously of value in the sense of knowing yourself...for our own personal life...but what else? Because a history on its own is something that everyone has...without it usually going any farther...

I'd say cultural values and life ways can definitely contribute to goodness, meaning, and value. Pride in where you're from can remind you of the good things of that heritage, ancestry, and bloodline of those within it. Bloodline is a physical reminder of those people that carried that heritage and ancestry. I believe it also comes with a spiritual reminder inside those that carry that bloodline.


Quote: 2) How can this inform our decisions...our actions...is it even supposed to do this?


With heritage comes traditions, with ancestry comes the passing on of traditions and bloodline. Tied in all this is culture.

Any person associated within a native community, and has had first hand look at some of the values associated within that community, values that have been passed down through the generations, one can easily identify just how beautiful the culture of our ancestors must have been. A culture that hadn't yet had an exterminator moving through it. That way of life was, and is, a respectful good way of life.

Quote: Does not our cultural values and traditions inform our actions and decisions?

I've stated so.

Quote: 3) Does it carry with it any kind of responsibility? Any kind of value other than just...being from something...and belonging to something? Does this belonging have any greater meaning?

Responsibility? of course it does. To look upon that heritage and ancestry and learn from it. Any person can *nalyze their heritage and ancestry and learn from the good and bad things of that culture. One has the responsibility to do that. The key is to take off those cultural eye glasses that one may be staring through.



Quote: 4) Is this meaning exclusive? Or inclusive? Is this meaning embracing? Or alienating to others...who are not the same? Is it there to create borders and separation...or is it there to create unity and understanding?

The things you speak of are there to teach people, just as nature has taught people to observe and learn from it (not sure "it" is a good word for nature, but I am speaking english.)

I think your thinking on borders and separation are too mixed into the negative. Take a look at animals, they have separation, and they also co-exist with each other respectively.

[ravenboy (deleted)]

Interesting answers John...thanks...and thanks to mild as well...

Food for thought....great../smiles.

[pahinhwinh]

`Heritage & blood are not the same thing. Heritage is the accumulated history & Traditions of a People - D/L/Nakota as I am, maybe Tsistina *(renamed Cheyenne by the washichu), or Dine *(renamed the "Navajo" by the washichu - actually means "head basher" in Ute), etc. There never was any such thing as 'an' Indn culture. Common threads, yes; but the details make all the difference(s) & always have.
If you live in the Traditional Way of your People - providing you know them - or according to the common threads of Indigenous Turtle Islander cultures, you bring a spirit of balance & of seeking balance; of showing respect for people & things for what they are, not merely paying lip service to respect - admittedly, sometimes that's not much respect, some people being what/how they are. If you live according to the Traditional Ways, you do not deal in Sacred things, nor do you condone such behavior. You don't drink or use drugs for 'recreation'. You thank the spirits of every thing you eat for their sacrifice so you can continue here. And in so doing, you teach others, from children to grown-ups, keeping in mind that because of the ongoing assaults of the majority culture to extinct our cultures, if you don't do it, our Ways may become extinct & the loser culture (the Majority Culture) would win by default.
I am a Lakota mixed-blood first, last, & always. I am a Sun Dancer & a Pipe Carrier. I have a whiteman-way college education, but in no way have I sold out to the M.C. I am an Indigenous Turtle Islander, not a "native american" because properly, this land is not "america", it is Turtle Island. We ITI were here first; the tag "america" was ---- on this land by a self-promoting Italian mapmaker who wanted to immortalize himself - Amerigo Vespucci. There's more, but in short, I do not sell out. If one can do it, so can you. All it takes is dedication & tenacity to be true to the Traditional Ways that made our various ITI cultures so great for so many thousands of years.
The stubbornness that has gotten us Traditionals so much 'guff' from the M.C. & sell-outs is the same quality that has enabled us to consider the source of the 'guff' & rise above it, & continue the Traditions. Mitakuye oiasin.

[harmony68 (deleted)]

pahinhwinh wrote: ` If you live in the Traditional Way of your People - providing you know them - or according to the common threads of Indigenous Turtle Islander cultures, you bring a spirit of balance & of seeking balance; of showing respect for people & things for what they are, not merely paying lip service to respect - admittedly, sometimes that's not much respect, some people being what/how they are.


thank you pahinhwinh for your post. all of this thread so far gives me a lot to think about.

peace